Podcast Episode 85 - Public health meets postpartum in-home care
Interview with Sami Stewart
I chat with Newborn Mothers graduate Sami Stewart from The Hold. Together we discuss how public health, advocacy and policy intersect with the postpartum experience of mothers and families in their homes. At the core of this conversation, we explore the importance of working with families on the ground, as well as making changes at a systemic level.
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About Sami
Sami Stewart (she/her/hers) is a mother, doula, public health professional, LGBTQ community member and advocate, change-maker and activist. Her practice is evidence-based, intuition-driven and community-centred. Sami launched her business "The Hold" in late 2022. It seeks to support all women, mothers, parents and birthing people to receive continuity of care and community through their pregnancy and the postpartum period. Sami’s offerings focus on slow, purposeful, parent-driven support, holding the new mother/parent in the way they deserve to be held. Her books are open for 2023, find out more at www.theholddoulaco.com
We explore the following questions:
With your background in science and LGBTQ domestic and family violence awareness, how did you decide to become a doula?
How do you take the big picture learning from health and LGBTQ domestic and family violence awareness and translate that into supporting families?
What kind of support and experience did you have during your own transition and how has that impacted your decision to step into this professionally?
What did you have to let go of in order to step into the space as a postpartum professional?
How has studying and working postpartum had an impact intergenerational?
How important is it to advocate with your partner about your need for a postpartum doula?
What would you like your contribution to be in the future? How will you balance the macro and the micro passions you hold?
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Transcript
With your background in science and LGBTQ domestic and family violence awareness, how did you decide to become a doula? (0:30)
Julia Jones:
Hello, and welcome to Newborn Mothers Podcast. Today, we have a graduate of Newborn Mothers Collective. Sami is here to share her personal story about becoming a doula. And Sami, you have a really interesting background because you've been involved in science and medicine, but you're also the founding director of the LGBTQ Domestic and Family Violence Awareness Foundation. So I'm just wondering, where did you start, and how did you end up from there deciding to be a doula?
Sami Stewart:
Huge question, Julia. It's so amazing to have the opportunity to talk to you, talk about my world, my work world, my personal world. I'm so grateful for the opportunity. So thank you for having me on. I think for me as a newborn mother myself, I've got an 11-month-old Bubba. I think if you ask anyone in my life, it would have been really clear that pregnancy postpartum was going to change me profoundly and I knew that was going to happen on a personal level, and it was the professional level where I was... Yeah. Just really taken aback by how clear the messaging was in my internal world and the external world that I was being called to something really profound and something that hopefully was going to change my life for the better and also change the lives of birthing people and moms and parents in Brisbane and beyond.
So maybe I'll start with a bit of my background. I explain how that took me into your course and all things doula. I have a wildly varied, professional history covering music production, TV, and festivals and found myself in public health, specifically in bloodborne viruses. So HIV, Hepatitis B, Hepatitis C and sexual health. And I came to public health with a fascination for relationships and intimate relationships. And the more I learned about our bodies and all the incredible, wonderful and mysterious thing that our bodies are capable of, I just had my interest so piqued by bisexual health and blood-borne viruses. And I really revelled in the opportunity to learn about things at that macro level, to have an understanding of whole communities, whole populations at that large population level. And thrived in my career and still am, I've got about a fortnight left before I go back to my regular job after my parental leave. And I'm excited to get back into all things data and big picture and policy and advocacy.
But there was just a little itch, a little itch that started in me probably about four or five months into my postpartum journey where I just felt pulling this divine feminine part of me that was just the voice in my head was getting quite strong and saying, "Hey, there's something else out here for you. Sit with that feeling and see what it turns into." And as I said earlier, I knew the profound personal shift that would happen thanks to matrescence and all the beautiful gifts and challenges of early postpartum. But it was the professional edge that I hadn't been expecting. And it has all flowed really finding your course, finding my feet and setting up my own business. It's flowed out of me so naturally and so beautifully.
And I'm just so grateful for people like you and your course and the incredible online world of doulas that I've been able to connect with who have welcomed me, even with my big boring scientific background. I felt really supported and nurtured by this community, which is what you need, I guess, to go out and support and nurture other mummas and birthing people.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, I think so. And when you explain it like that, I realize it's not such a stretch because if you've worked in public health and things like HIV, I think you'd have a fairly good awareness of issues like shame and isolation and having too hyper individual responses to actually broader social systemic issues. And motherhood is not all that different.
Sami Stewart:
Absolutely. I think it's being able to zoom in and out and have the big picture, have the evidence base, have the data, have that population level understanding and be able to come in on that macro level and understand people, the person sitting in front of you and what they need, and be able to translate and navigate those two realms at once. And yeah, I think I've seen big picture differences through my work. I've seen those big policy changes, big pieces of advocacy that have paid off. Deep in my heart, what I can't wait for is to see to that change that I'm able to provide on that beautiful micro level of a family, a family system.
Julia Jones:
Yeah. Yeah, So the shift is to be in that more nurturing role. Yeah, that is quite a big change to, I guess, how... Well, I'm not going to say that to a different way of that being rewarding for you as a career.
Sami Stewart:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
How do you take the big picture learning from health and LGBTQ domestic and family violence awareness and translate that into supporting families? (06:26)
Julia Jones:
Yeah. And so you joined the collective and you've studied, I know that you're just working behind the scenes and getting all your bits and pieces set up to launch. So tell me what you think your business is going to look like.
Sami Stewart:
Beautiful. Thank you for asking. So my business is called The Hold, and it will be a range of online and in-home offerings for moms, women, families, and birthing people who are just looking for that extra bit of TLC and support. I support all family dynamics, all people, single parents, multiple parents, and parents who have experienced domestic and family violence. Given the other hat that I wear, which you mentioned earlier, working as one of the founding directors of the LGBTQ Domestic and Family Violence Awareness Foundation.
And the aim is, I guess just to take all that big picture learning and research and data and evidence that I'm aware of and work out how I can translate that to the personal experience. I think for me, being able to offer my services in the home, so being there for mama with a warm plate of food and being able to share resources and have conversations and support, but also being able to offer that in an online capacity. I think the last few years it's really shown just how much of a need there is for connection and care and continuity of connection. And that doesn't need to be in strictly a face-to-face environment. So a really big part of my offerings will be making sure that folks, no matter where they're from, will be able to access my services. And I'm based in Brisbane. I'm a beautiful, Turrbal country in Brisbane's Northwest, I'm in Queensland.
What kind of support and experience did you have during your own transition and how has that impacted your decision to step into this professionally? (08:23)
Julia Jones:
I'm curious as well, what kind of support and experience you had during your own transition and how that's impacted your decision to step into this professionally?
Sami Stewart:
Yeah, such a great question. I've obviously been doing a lot of writing at the moment while I'm setting up all my packages and websites and Instagram. And it's been a really interesting point of reflection and one that I'm so grateful for your course as well, for allowing the space for the students to sit back and reflect on their own postpartum experience if they're given birth. And I think for me, my biggest learning was thinking that just because I had all the information I was set. If I did all the research if had all my evidence if I had all the books, all the podcasts, all the documentaries, that it would be the information that would be the thing that would take care of me. And whilst numbers and letters are fabulous, numbers and letters aren't going to give you a big hug and help you when you've got mastitis and COVID and feeling lonely and isolated. So it was a really big learning and learning that I think really impacted me personally, but also professionally as well.
Thinking about that big macro level that I've existed on where I can pull data on population so easily. But for me, I had all that information and it didn't translate to that loving, nurturing, supportive postpartum experience that I certainly deserved. And I think knowing things is fabulous, but knowing when to say, I need help and I'm worthy of help and I deserve help and I'm worthy of the investment that sometimes needs to happen to be able to access that community was definitely my biggest lesson. And probably another big part of the pitch first, why I wanted to get in there with my own two hands and make a difference for mamas and birthing people.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, it's interesting. I had the exact same experience with my first baby because I'd already studied to be a postpartum doula. I'd already had a few prior clients, I'd already read all the books and I had the same thought. I was like, "Well, I know everything. I know the recipes, I'll just cook them for myself." And really, absolutely what was missing for me was the idea that actually you can't do it for yourself. You can't doula yourself. You have to ask for help. You have to reach out. And I've talked for many, many years about community care as opposed to self-care, and I just think that's absolutely essential and missing in our culture.
Sami Stewart:
Oh, absolutely. And it's part of, I think, where, not tricked, but I think it's really easy to feel like everything in pregnancy and birth and postpartum is a problem to be solved. And if you just have the right information or the right equipment, the right gear, that it's going to be fine. And that big lesson for me is what is and still and definitely still is that you need people. You need people who have that feminine energy to wrap you up and see hold you, hold space for you and just normalize the experience. And I was so grateful for the friends that I have all around the world I was able to connect with online, because I really, really helped them by having other moms to check in with, because I'm relatively new to my city, so don't have family or other new families or pregnant bound folks here to connect with. There was definitely that online connection with other moms. Yeah. That really got me through those dark nights of the soul.
What did you have to let go of in order to step into the space as a postpartum professional? (12:49)
Julia Jones:
Yeah. And do you think that because you had quite an academic, medical educated background, do you reckon that makes that harder? You have that idea that, "Oh, if I just know it I can just learn all the things?"
Sami Stewart:
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It's a big part of my inner work at the moment as I'm stepping into this role as a postpartum doula is learning how to step back from problem-solving and learning how to just…be with emotion, be with a room, be with a woman, a mama and just be, and to not have my mind naturally go into, "Oh, great, I know exactly how we could solve that. I've got some data for you, I'll send resources. I've had a few initial chats with some moms already and it's been really beneficial to have done that inner work and still be doing that innner work, because when I see my mind go there, I'm just like, "Take a breath, Sami. You're not problem-solving here. That's exactly what you're not doing, actually. This is not a riddle to be solved. Just stay present, keep eye contact, listen, and just help regulate." Yeah, it’s an incredible blessing and gift.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, it's interesting because my husband always laughs his head off when I tell him that I teach people about listening and being non-judgmental and not jumping into solutions and all of that stuff, because that's not naturally actually who I am. He's like, "You teach people about listening, you should get better at listening to me."
Sami Stewart:
I think your partner might be talking to my partner because we have the exact same conversations over here at my house.
Julia Jones:
And I think, maybe the thing is if you have to learn that, then sometimes you can get really good at it. So you don't have to be naturally good to be a doula at any specific skill. I think a lot of those things you can actually learn.
Sami Stewart:
And again, the real blessing of the time I spent in your course and with the other students is just hearing how other people are doing this inner work so that they're ready to go out there in the world and do the outer work as well.
How has studying and working postpartum had an impact intergenerationally? (15:10)
Julia Jones:
Yeah, I love it. I would say even intergenerationally healing that we're doing this.
Sami Stewart:
Yeah. Oh, actually that reminds me, just before we started chatting, I'd sent my mom a whole bunch of promo photos that I just got taken for my website and for my Instagram. And she said she got incredibly teary, obviously full of pride and all those beautiful feelings for me. But she didn't realize, even though she's been such a huge part of my journey to become a postpartum doula, she was really taken aback. But when she saw me in that nurturing role, sitting with the mama, listening, doing all the fab things that postpartum doulas do, it was the first time that she'd had that big feeling of, "Oh, gosh, I really missed out in my own postpartum experience as well."
I didn't get that. And seeing it visually, seeing the child that I had out there taking care of people, it's challenging and hard. But also I think really healing for her to have the space to have those conversations about what she missed out on, what I missed out on and what potentially my children will miss out on. But also what's there to be gained and the lessons that we can learn and how we can sew together our experiences and create something better for the generation ahead.
Julia Jones:
And hopefully our children won't all miss out on what we missed out on. But I think that's such a common story, isn't it? One of the things that drew me to postpartum work was my own mom always telling me about when I was born, and she was a natural mother. She loved having children and she's a very nurturing person, was very happy to give up her career and all of that. But what she struggled with so much was not having family. So her and my dad, they immigrated to Australia just a few years before I was born. She didn't have really much community and no family at all. And then she had an emergency cesarean and dad couldn't even get time off work. Men didn't get time off work back then, so she was just literally all alone.
So she always said to me, "When you have your babies, you come home and let me help you out because it's a big deal and you don't want to be alone for that." And so I think it's really a brave and wise thing when I think women can feel what they missed out on and then support other people to have a different experience, because that's not always the case. Some people are more like, "Well, I was fine and you should just toughen up."
Sami Stewart:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I guess it's a choice sometimes. Sometimes it's not a choice and it's the privilege of having access to resources to be able to do that inner work, to do the healing. But also, yeah, I guess having the space and time to figure out once that healing is done, what comes next? And I'm such an action driven person. Honestly, I can't even remember how I stumbled upon your course. I wish I had some really beautiful origin story, but I found it and it was just like-
Julia Jones:
We probably targeted you with Facebook ads.
Sami Stewart:
Yeah, well, it worked. And it was just a big full body, yes, to this is how I go through my own postpartum, my own experience. I'm only 11 months postpartum myself. I'm still there, I'm still in that work. At the end of my year, year since giving birth come to this beautiful point of celebration and understanding and healing and be ready to go out there and take care of other moms is a very blessed, and fortuitous place to be in my own journey.
How important is it to advocate with your partner about your need for a postpartum doula? (19:09)
Julia Jones:
I'm curious before you stumbled across Newborn Mothers, did you know what a doula was? Were you already thinking about that?
Sami Stewart:
You bet. I did. I'd done all the work. I knew all the local people up here. I missed out on my birth doula by just a couple of days. She was booked out and I didn't find another birth doula that I had totally connected with. And a story, which I'm sure is a similar story for other folks out there is that I didn't advocate strongly enough for myself when it came to the investment that was required for a postpartum doula, because there's some great women up here doing this work. And the conversation I had with my partner, I didn't have the guts and the resolve to be like, "No, this is a non-negotiable."
And of course, now that we talk about it, there's so much love and healing and understanding for why we made the decision that we did at that time. And also lots of reflection being like Aha, I see where we took a wrong turn and I see how great we did as a team, but how loving and supportive and complete. I think our postpartum experience would have been if we had that amazing third party come in and just give us a hand.
Julia Jones:
Isn't that interesting that you are an advocate and activist?
Sami Stewart:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great for other people. Often not so-
Julia Jones:
So hard to do it for yourself.
Sami Stewart:
... not so great for myself. Yeah.
Julia Jones:
Yeah. Yeah. If it had been your partner having the baby, you maybe would have.
Sami Stewart:
It would have been non-negotiable. But yeah, it's definitely part of my own healing story as well, is being able to make change myself and as well as change for communities.
What would you like your contribution to be in the future? How will you balance the macro and the micro passions you hold? (21:00)
Julia Jones:
Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about that. What's next? If you put yourself 10, 20 years in the future, what do you feel like you'd your contribution to be?
Sami Stewart:
Oh, I love that question, Julia. Thank you. I think I am finding that really beautiful niche. I'm circling back to what we were talking about earlier with all of my training, all of my experience, I'll call it unique, but I think there's definitely folks who have a similar skillset is being able to see and operate on that macro, global, national, whatever it looks like, level and be able to integrate it and provide care at the micro level. And so where I see this going, in an ideal dream world, I want to be in homes with families, with women, with mothers, with birthing people, holding space, holding hands, rubbing shoulders, cooking food, taking care of babies, baby wearing all that beautiful, warm, loving, feminine needed work.
And using the time that I'm not in home with mothers, putting all of my years of policy and advocacy and awareness raising and project management and education development, curriculum development to very good use and making big noise and big change for the experience of my mums and birthing people in Australia. Because yeah, I've got the skills, I've got the resources, and it's just continuing to hear stories and figure out what needs to be changed and how I can be part of that change. Change makes me happy. Love change.
Julia Jones:
Yeah. Yeah. I love hearing that you want to do both as well, because I think a lot of people feel like they have to choose like, "If I'm working in home then I can't do other stuff too." But why not both? I love that.
Sami Stewart:
Exactly. Exactly. Bridge the gap and yeah, standing on the shoulders of all the incredible women and leaders who have been doing this work for decades and the millennia of experience of nourishing and tending to and caring for the newborn mother. And I just see that little niche sitting there for me to do the work that nourishes my soul. And also see big picture change and go out there and get it.
Julia Jones:
Which is just another way of nourishing and tending and caring for.
Sami Stewart:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, beautiful. What a beautiful conversation. It's been so great to chat with you. Do you want to share a little bit about where people can find you online?
Sami Stewart:
Absolutely. So by the time this podcast comes out, you'll be able to find me at theholddoulaco.com, and theholddoulaco on Instagram.
Julia Jones:
Fantastic. We'll make sure those links are in the show notes. Thank you so much for chatting, Sami, and we'll see you next time.
