Podcast Episode 84 - Making a systemic change in motherhood through education
Interview with Chelsea Robinson
I chat with Newborn Mothers graduate Chelsea Robinson from Mama's Modern Village. Together we discuss Chelsea's career change into the motherhood field, her learnings from working 1-1 with mothers and how she's using that to bring about systemic change. At the core of this conversation is the importance of education, social justice and systems change in shifting the maternal experience on an individual level.
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About Chelsea
Chelsea Robinson, LCSW, is a motherhood therapist, matrescence coach, village builder and founder of Mama’s Modern Village. With over 10 years of experience in the field of mental health, she supports women on their motherhood journey at the intersection of modern motherhood culture and a woman’s matrescence, her transition from woman to mother. Chelsea is not a parenting expert, but rather an expert on the mama, whose work centres on bringing the mother back into focus. She is the creator of Becoming Mama, a twelve-week program (truly the fourth trimester), designed to support the modern mama in becoming her own guide on her lifelong matrescence journey.
You can connect with Chelsea at www.mamasmodernvillage.com
We explore the following questions:
Why have you switched from a big career into the field of motherhood?
Where has your learnings through Newborn Mothers taken you?
Why are you shifting from working 1-1 to working towards social change?
What are the patters and themes you’ve seen through your 1-1 work with mothers?
How will you support families moving forward with the educational pillars you’ve created?
How does social justice intersect with motherhood support?
How are you going to create systems change?
How to connect with Chelsea and Mamas Modern Village?
Additional resources we spoke about:
Mama's Modern Village App - https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/mamas-modern-village/id1614272799
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Transcript
Julia Jones:
Hello and welcome to Newborn Mothers Podcast. And today we have Chelsea who has a business called Mama's Modern Village. And Chelsea, your background is as a counsellor and I know you are obviously a graduate of Newborn Mothers as well. And I know that you are making some really big moves in 2023, and I wanted to have you on the podcast to talk a little bit about your journey so far. But also your big vision for the future. I often think that women in our space find it a little scary to really stretch themselves to those bigger dreams, and I really admire that you have really embraced that and you're taking those, I was going to say steps, it's more leaps and bounds. So I'm excited to have you on and hear a bit more of that story and share that with our audience. Do you want to introduce yourself in your own words?
Who is Chelsea Robinson from Mamas Modern Village? (01:25)
Chelsea Robinson:
Well, first of all, I'm just really grateful to be here and to be talking with you. I think you are the leading inspiration for where I am today in my work, and I'm just profoundly grateful for you and for this opportunity.
Julia Jones:
Wonderful. A pleasure to have you here.
Chelsea Robinson:
Thank you. So yeah, so I am a licensed clinical social worker and I have dedicated so much of my career up until about, gosh, right before COVID, 2020, in working with families in domestic violence and sexual assault. And so I've been the clinical director at a nonprofit agency for almost eight years. And goodness, I was thriving in my career and sitting on the board of directors at different nonprofits in my community, was a college professor, clinical director, doing all these things. And it wasn't until I became a mama myself that I was like, "Woo, maybe something bigger is happening here."
Why have you switched from a big career to the field of motherhood? (02:29)
Julia Jones:
That already sounds big. I find it so fascinating when people like you, who already have big careers, decide that this is it.
Chelsea Robinson:
Oh, absolutely. I think that it speaks to the need, I think, obviously for the support of moms that I was just vastly under-prepared for my transition into motherhood. And I went from feeling like I was this very confident, had it all together, extremely motivated on my game woman too, whoa, who am I now, what are the values I have the priorities in my life, et cetera. And thank goodness for that Facebook algorithm. I don't know what it was I was Googling at that time. But upped, popped Julia Jones with Newborn Mothers and I was like, "Aha, I must do this."
Julia Jones:
Which is interesting because it's a little different to what you were doing before, but it also makes sense in terms of your values.
Chelsea Robinson:
Absolutely. I definitely agree. I've been largely obviously working within the field of domestic violence and sexual assault. I predominantly was working with women and children and the intersectionality of motherhood and who you are as a mother and the relationships that you have in which violence might be used against you is real. And so I was always kind of working with mothers in a very different setting. So right before COVID I was like, "This is it. I'm going to take the leap and start to transition myself into supporting women all along their journey in motherhood with a particular focus in the postpartum."
Julia Jones:
And you did enroll right before COVID, it was February, 2020.
Chelsea Robinson:
Yeah. Little did I know!
Where have your learnings through Newborn Mothers taken you? (04:31)
Julia Jones:
And then the world changed. So what have you been doing with that study? What kind of work has that led you to?
Chelsea Robinson:
Oh my goodness, where do I even start? I think it kind of, like I said, I first felt really seen and I was like, oh my goodness, there's a reason that my partner and I have been feeling kind of alone. And it was obviously COVID had a lot to do with that. But even prior to COVID and your lessons on alloparenting and educating myself on how we went from really having our village of support pre-industrial era to where we are now, everything just started falling into place for me in terms of me being able to see myself and my own motherhood journey. And so I took all of that and I dove deeper. I am incredibly grateful for the time that I spent with Dr. Athan at Columbia University, who's the leading expert on matrescence. And I was able to be mentored by her. And so I just continued to dig deep, both in my own personal journey of becoming a mother as well as professionally and with academics.
Why are you shifting from working 1-1 to working towards social change? (05:46)
Julia Jones:
Yeah. Amazing. And you're doing counselling work at the moment. And tell me a little bit about... I guess I want to hear the power of that work, but I also want to hear why you are moving away from that work as well. Because both of those things are really valid.
Chelsea Robinson:
Absolutely. Absolutely. This is why specifically where I chose to go to school where I did in graduate school for social work because it allowed me to have a dual concentration. So I could focus on the clinical side, which meant I was working one on one with clients, but then I also was able to have a shared focus and the social justice, and social change side of social work. And I feel that you can't separate the two. My one-on-one work with my clients was going to inform the social justice and social change side of social work I wanted to be involved in. But I also knew that in order to make any systemic change and be part of that, I needed to know what it was like and how it impacted people on the day-to-day.
And so I really have been so honoured and profoundly grateful for the opportunity to support women, one-on-one, with individual therapy. And through all of that, it's really only affirmed the education that I've been able to gain through my mentors. I see it happening in real-time. I see matrescence happening, I see their struggle and their journey into really owning who they are as both a woman and mother once they become a mother. And I feel this deep desire to be a part of that education, to be a part now of some of that more almost systemic change that needs to happen in truly respecting a woman when she becomes a mother. So it's again that same idea of, you need both. You need the one-on-one to inform the social change and you need the social change to affect, and change the one-on-one. So that's where I'm headed.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, I love that. And I really agree with you on that. The education piece is really the paradigm shift and the idea that sometimes women have no support. And sometimes women have support, but they have beliefs that stop them from accessing that support. And so I think that's where this educational piece really works is being able to help women to understand that sometimes there is support and that they are feeling like they're not worthy or they're ashamed or they feel like they shouldn't need it. I can see how you can make such a difference with that educational piece, even if you're not the one providing the support.
Chelsea Robinson:
Yes, yes, definitely. I think what you just shared speaks to this idea in motherhood, right? It's not a me problem, it's a we problem. So much of what mother's face and women face, we've internalized as a representation of our own lack or our own inability when truly it's the systems in place that have kept us oppressed or that keep us limited and reinforce those limiting beliefs we have from a very, very young age, being raised as girls in our more modern society.
What are the patterns and themes you’ve seen through your 1-1 work with mothers? (09:31)
Julia Jones:
So tell me a little bit about that. Now that you've worked with a bunch of people and you can start to, in your one-on-one works, zoom out and see some of these patterns, what are some of those key themes that you see coming up again and again?
Chelsea Robinson:
Oh my gosh. Yeah. I think that in my work I've definitely honed into about four to six that continue to repeat themselves. I really look at them almost as the pillars of Mama's Modern Village. And so those are that it doesn't only take a village to raise a child, but it takes a village to raise a mom. When we give birth or become a mom, we too, as you say as well, are born as mothers and she is just as deserving as her newborn of care and support and nurturing and modelling and having those elders in her life that have been there and done that, that can pass on some of that wisdom and really kind of help to raise her as a mother. So that's definitely one of them.
Another one is that you are always becoming a mom. It's not like, "Okay, wonderful, I've made the destination, I've given birth to my child and here I've arrived." It is a constant evolution of your becoming mama. And with every developmental milestone that your child hits, you too have a change in your relationship with that child. And therefore, your identity can shift as you're needed in a different way or in a different capacity.
Julia Jones:
Yeah. I can relate to that a lot, at the moment. My daughter's 12, so we're on the cusp of a very big parenting shift. So yeah, I agree, always becoming a mama.
Chelsea Robinson:
And what that means for you now and the time you have free to get to invest in other identities. It's so true. I see that in my own self. I have an almost five-year-old and pretty much a newborn and I'm like, "Wow, I was shifting out of one stage and through myself, kind of right back in."
Julia Jones:
Right back in.
Chelsea Robinson:
Here I go again.
Julia Jones:
Yeah. I had a big age gap between my second and third, so I can relate to that, thinking like, "Oh, we're through." No, we're right back at the beginning.
Chelsea Robinson:
Yes, yes. And here we go again.
Julia Jones:
Yeah. So tell me another pillar.
Chelsea Robinson:
Oh goodness, sorry, right on the spot. Now I have to think of what they are. Don't worry.
Julia Jones:
I was throwing you off because I changed the subject.
Chelsea Robinson:
That's so okay.
Julia Jones:
So we had becoming a mama and-
Chelsea Robinson:
It takes a village to raise mama. And once postpartum, always postpartum. This idea that postpartum ends six weeks after and we should be bounced back both physically, mentally, emotionally, all the ways. I just think that quite honestly, when I was mothering a three-year-old, I needed meal trains almost more then than I did when I had a six-week-old baby. And I know in my work with mothers that are supporting that, children are 14 to 18 years old, they too definitely desire the check-ins and the drop bys and someone helping with their housework. That never ends. So that's another pillar of Mama's, once postpartum, always postpartum.
How will you support families moving forward with the educational pillars you’ve created? (13:37)
Julia Jones:
I love it. So now that you've had some experience and some ways of... Because really your learning began a long time before you joined us at Newborn Mothers as well. So you're kind of integrating this into postpartum care. And what will you do with that now that you've kind of distilled this knowledge? What's your next steps for being able to support families?
Chelsea Robinson:
Well, I'm very, very excited about where I'm headed and hope that the work that I've, again been so honored to do more one on one with women, I now will be moving towards being able to have a larger impact. I think I want to be a part so desperately of that renaissance that you call it. I want to be an active member, like a thought leader in that space, someone who is shaking things up and helping to really reform policy and make policy change. And on that level, as well as just make it so that a mom doesn't have to wait until she's three years postpartum and has been feeling super disconnected from her partner if she has one and confused about her role and her career and just feeling somewhat undone to be able to go, "Oh, there's a reason for this." I want that to just be understood and not something necessarily that she has to go searching for. I want it to be told to her.
And so that's my goal is that I get to move more into a place of education, make a larger impact within the world of mothers and women on their motherhood journey. And so much of that seriously, Julia, is thanks to you. I see you as such a thought leader in the realm of motherhood in general, and you inspire me. I think that your philosophy in the work that you do, how you always, I think you would agree to this, take a social justice approach in your work, I'm so aligned with that, and I feel empowered to be able to do so. So much of that is because of you. So thank you.
How does social justice intersect with motherhood support? (16:06)
Julia Jones:
Yeah, it's funny that you see that in me, Chelsea, particularly the social justice thing. Most people might not realize that that was actually what I studied at university. So for me, that was what came even before postpartum care. So I love that you see that, that underpins everything that I do.
Chelsea Robinson:
It absolutely does. I feel that. I guess in general, if you really think about it, when you're working to serve any more oppressed population, there's social justice involved to a very huge degree. And so how can the work we're doing supporting mothers not be social justice oriented?
Julia Jones:
Yes, absolutely. I agree. One of the interesting things for me was after I finished university, I traveled in Asia and I did some volunteering work and I had already a good strong idea of not interfering and rescuing. I had that training already. But what was most surprising to me is that actually when I was there, what I did was see how much better they supported families and how much better they integrated mothers and babies into society. And I brought that home. So rather than taking any of our Western perspectives and ideals and teaching them, it was actually the total opposite experience of going, "Hang on a second, I think we're doing something wrong." This isn't how we should be supporting women. So yeah, that was really how I came to this work.
How are you going to create systems change? (17:49)
So I love the big vision and I know there will be some people listening to this who are like, "Yes, yes, I want to be a thought leader. I want systems to change. I'm here for all of that." And there will be other people who are, "That's a bit much. I think I just want to work with mums in their homes and cook meals." And that's a completely valid career. And what you've been saying, again and again, is we need both. Both of those things are really critical to this transition. And so when we look at the nuts and bolts of how you're going to do that, what does it look like for you? You're moving online, you've created a course, and I know you have some bigger longer-term dreams as well. So do you want to tell us about-
Chelsea Robinson:
Oh my gosh, you're going to make me talk about those too?
Julia Jones:
Of course.
Chelsea Robinson:
There's accountability in this, Julia.
Julia Jones:
Chelsea.
Chelsea Robinson:
Now I have to do it.
Julia Jones:
Chelsea and I work very closely together in a mastermind, she's in our magic mastermind. And so I know these things about you, Chelsea. You've told me offline, so here we are.
Chelsea Robinson:
That's true. So yeah, I'm so excited to probably, towards the end of 2022, be launching my Becoming Mama program in which I've really taken all of the research ultimately that I have gained and just providing one-on-one therapy to the women I work with, then the mentorship that I've had, and distilled it into six pillars that in my eyes really support a woman's transition, her matrescence into that of mother. Whether she's expecting or she's in her postpartum, those early months postpartum, are quite honestly very applicable to really all mothers.
Julia Jones:
Always postpartum.
Chelsea Robinson:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so that program with these lessons will hopefully really support a woman to respect her role as both a woman and a mother. And that I am so excited about because that program will allow me to do the education side of things.
Julia Jones:
Yeah. And then?
Chelsea Robinson:
And then the longer term. I know, with the dot, dot, dot. Longer term, I want to have a TED Talk, in one or two of those, I want to write a book. I love writing. That's definitely a passion of mine. And so getting published and being on someone's shelf that they can pick up whenever they're needing to feel seen or validated in their journey, I want to be that name. I want to be one of the go-to’s that's able to do that for them.
How to connect with Chelsea and Mamas Modern Village? (20:47)
Julia Jones:
Yes, I love it. I love both of those steps. I love where you come from. I love it all. Do you want to tell people a little bit about where they can find you and what the next steps are?
Chelsea Robinson:
Absolutely. So my website is mamasmodernvillage.com. And there, please feel free to join our 5 Days to Slowing Down challenge, which honestly is meant to really help you connect back to your intuition and slow you down so you feel a little bit less reactive in all of motherhood, which is very common. But I also have the ability then to grab your email. And with that, we can stay in touch with one another and you'll be the first to know when the Becoming Mama Program drops and all the other exciting information that I'm sure will be percolating in 2023.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, very exciting. Perfect timing for busy mums in the holiday season to be slowing down. So I think that's really, really lovely. Thank you so much, Chelsea. It's been a pleasure to chat. Do you have any last thoughts you want to share?
Chelsea Robinson:
No. I'm really grateful to you. I know, okay, maybe I do. At one point I definitely remember there was a post, this is just again, kudos to you Julia. I just have so much gratitude for where I am in my career. Again, thank you Facebook, I should be saying. But I referred to you as the Mother Teresa of the motherhood realm. And again, I just think that that's who you are to me. That's, and I'll get teary-eyed, but that's how much you've changed my life and the trajectory I'm on and I'm going into. So thank you.
Julia Jones:
Oh, Chelsea is such a kind thing to say and means a lot to me because I grew up either wanting to be Mother Teresa or Florence Nightingale.
Chelsea Robinson:
Look at that.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, so that's a beautiful thing to say. Thank you so much and we'll share all your links in the comments and it's been beautiful to hear your story. And thank you for sharing bravely about some of those things that don't exist yet as well, because that's really powerful.
Chelsea Robinson:
Yeah, I put it out there.
Julia Jones:
Yep, yep. Let's get you a TED Talk and publishing deal. Let's do it.
Chelsea Robinson:
Here we go. Here we go. I'm on board. Awesome.
Julia Jones:
Awesome. Thanks, Chelsea. See you next time.
Chelsea Robinson:
Of course. Bye.
Julia Jones:
Bye.
