Podcast - Episode 36 - Starting A Postpartum Business
You Are Here Because You Believe Birth Is About Making Mums Too.
Doula Interview with Ashley Winning
Ashley and I talk about boundaries, vulnerability, confidence, and how to get your husband on board with your business. Ashley shares the ups and downs of figuring out what to sell and how to sell it with honesty and humility. A very inspiring story!
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Ashley believes that when a baby is born so is a mother. She is the creator of the Journey into Motherhood, an online membership area supporting new mothers to find their calm, confidence and connection in motherhood. You can find out more along with many motherhood resources and support on her website: www.themotherhoodcircle.com.au
We Explore the following Questions:
How did becoming a mother influence your career choices?
Did you feel a huge burst of inspiration and energy and motivation when starting a business as a Newborn Mother?
What role has daycare played in allowing you to build and grow your business?
What difficult conversations have you had with your partner about your business?
What has been your journey of finding out what you actually sell and who you sell it to?
How have you shifted the narrative that you need to work yourself to the bone to succeed?
What is the internal work you need to do within your business?
What have you created to support New Mothers or second-time mothers to feel calm, confident and connected?
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Transcript
Julia Jones:
Hello and welcome to Newborn Mothers Podcast. We're here again with another episode with another beautiful graduate. I love introducing you all to my graduates, so we're doing it again. Today we're speaking to Ashley, she's a postpartum doula and a motherhood guide. She has two very small children and she lives in Queensland. And Ashley and I have worked quite closely together for really quite a number of years now. So I'm really interested to hear, really, about... Ashley's very good at really being vulnerable and talking about a lot of the deeper, more subtle work that goes into starting a business, particularly as a mother. And that's really what we're going to be talking about today, is a lot of the more internal aspects of building and growing a business. Ashley, do you want to introduce yourself?
How did becoming a mother influence your career choices? (01:26 - 03:46)
Ashley Winning:
Hi, thanks, Julia. I'm really excited to be on here. I love listening to your podcast, so it's great to be on here again. I am Ashley, I live on the Gold Coast. I've got two little children, two little girls. They're almost three and five. I started my business when my daughter was a new baby. I'm crazy, I know, but as I go on with my business, I notice that so many mothers are starting their businesses with small babies, so it's quite common. Yeah, I'm really happy to be here.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, I think that's really true. I think a lot of people do start their businesses when they have a baby and everyone goes, "What are you thinking? Why are you so crazy?" And maybe it is crazy, but there's something about becoming a mother that really makes you want to be the best you can be and create a better world. And I think when you have to pay for childcare and spend time away from your children, you just find it much more difficult to go and sit in an office and waste time perhaps like you used to tolerate in your pre-children life. So was that your experience too, Ashley?
Ashley Winning:
Yes, when I had my daughter, I was obsessed with her. I was absolutely in love with her and I couldn't imagine going back to work and leaving her. So I did start a family daycare from home until I fell pregnant with my second baby, and then it wasn't financially viable. And then I had a traumatic birth experience and I'd been treated really horribly through my pregnancy, and afterwards there was just no support. And I knew that I wanted to create a difference for women in their lives to get the support that I was craving, that I really needed someone to guide me and hold my hand and I didn't know where to start.
So I started off with a blog that I was just sharing all of my trauma and all the hardship of sleep deprivation, birth trauma, feeling alone, and eventually said, "I want to make this a business. I want to actually go out and support women." And I didn't know where to start. But eventually somebody in the birth realm guided me to Julia, and that's when I started stalking Julia and decided... I was watching your videos, trying to get to know you, see if it was definitely for me, and then I eventually studied with Julia and found my place, basically.
Julia Jones:
Yes. It's such a common story, isn't it?
Ashley Winning:
Mm-hmm.
Did you feel a huge burst of inspiration and energy and motivation when starting a business as a Newborn Mother? (03:47 - 05:21)
Julia Jones:
And then did you feel as well, because I certainly felt this, but that although you were overwhelmed and exhausted as a mum, but you also just had this huge burst of inspiration and energy and motivation?
Ashley Winning:
Yes, yes. I remember, and I think it's crazy now because I don't do it now because I've worked out my hours and boundaries and healthy, not burning myself out, but I used to be up until 12 o'clock, two o'clock in the morning, midnight to two o'clock in the morning writing these blogs, learning all the things, learning how to build a website, learning how to do all this stuff because I had my daughter with me a hundred percent of the time. She was breastfed, she was a new baby, she was only a couple months in. I was doing things while she was sleeping in her naps. Whenever she had a nap, I was straight on the computer trying to learn something. And I don't know why I did it, but I was just so inspired and so excited to be learning this whole new world in business and all the things about motherhood and starting to realize that what I was experiencing and the experiences I had gone through were really normal and sad that there wasn't that much support out there to support us women and mothers.
Julia Jones:
Yes. Yeah, I've had such similar experiences and I think many mothers feel the same. And then there's the obvious difficulty of starting a business when you've got small babies because you have no time or money, and obviously working at your kitchen desk until 3:00 AM is not a long-term solution.
Ashley Winning:
No.
What role has daycare played in allowing you to build and grow your business? (05:22 - 08:14)
Julia Jones:
But what have you done in the longer term to make sure that you can find the time to actually build and grow this business?
Ashley Winning:
So it was really hard for me to wrap my head around how I was going to get the time, because I guess I had a lot of guilt around putting my children into daycare. So my daughter, my two-year-old was already in daycare a couple days a week and I wasn't ready to let go of my baby, so I kept her with me until 12 months until she wasn't breastfeeding anymore. And I decided I'm going to put her into family daycare two days a week. And I had to kind of work through a lot of the guilt there and also have conversations with my husband. And thankfully when it came to putting her into daycare, it wasn't a big thing with my husband.
But I still have had to kind of deal with a bit of guilt or feelings of judgment from family around me or other people who don't understand what running a business from home is or the amount of hours or work that it takes to actually do that. And I knew that if I was going to be serious about my business, that I needed to invest in myself and time into my business. So I was really glad when I put my daughter in. She was thriving, she enjoyed being with her sister, and they still go now, they love it. Like, "When are we going to go to... Are we going to family daycare today?" Or they call it Teagan's, but yeah, they love it and I enjoy my workdays as well, so it's been working out really well for all of us.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, it's very liberating when you realize this concept, it takes a village to raise a child, but that that can actually apply in the modern world too, paid childcare arrangements. Because my son is the same, he just looks so forward to the days when he spends time with his nanny. Yeah, he's like, "Is it a Leah day today?"
Ashley Winning:
And they become a second home. That's a home away from home, and you just see them thrive and they absolutely love it. And yeah, it's great.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, and they really can become very long-term relationships too. Our nanny is just about to finish up, which we are devastated about, but she's starting a master's in teaching, which is fantastic for her. And my son is starting kindy anyway next year. But I have no doubt that they will be family friends for many, many years to come. And in fact, they already have been because the way I found my nanny was because I used to babysit her boyfriend, they're getting married now, so her fiancé, when he was only about three years old. So-
Ashley Winning:
Oh, that's so cute.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, so although these things, it can feel a bit yucky, like I have to pay someone to look after my kids, but the bonds and the love and the relationships can still be super strong.
Ashley Winning:
Definitely.
What difficult conversations have you had with your partner about your business? (08:15 - 12:37)
Julia Jones:
And what about your partner? You mentioned a little bit in there that you had to have some hard chats with your husband. How supportive has he been of your business and how many difficult conversations have you had to have around that?
Ashley Winning:
Oh, this is such a hot topic I think because when I talk to my friends in business... Or, it was just the other day I was talking to a friend in business, and women take on so much, even when we're working. And I actually shared a memo on my Facebook page that went viral about the amount of plates that women have to juggle at one time. And while my husband is very hands-on, I do believe that it's different being a mother and that we take on a lot more emotional burden as well.
So throw running a business into the mix, it was very stressful to articulate to him just how important this was to me, to say, "Look, I know we're not making any money now. I know that we're going to have to pay to put our children into care, but unless we do this, there's going to be no business in the future. I need to invest time. You can't expect... I mean, you go to work five days a week and do a job. How can you expect me to start a business and make it successful if there's no time invested into this, and for me to invest time sustainably."
And I learned this from a lot of wonderful women in business, including yourself, Julia, and I had your support in the Mastermind, and many conversations with you. And some of the times you would say to me, "Oh, you've got to talk to your husband, and this is blah, blah blah." And it would feel really like, oh my god, I can't, I don't have the confidence to say to him, I need this from him because I'm working on my business that's making no money.
But I did, I put on my big girl panties and I had conversations that turned into debates, turned into fights, turned into arguments. They didn't get out of hand, they were respectful. But the more I spoke to him about it, the more he came on board with me and I could see a different change and shift within him understanding just how important and necessary this was.
So it came from me feeling really burdened and having to do it all, to getting support. And more recently, something that was amazing that happened was, my husband... I actually called my husband when I was sick one day and I said, "I'm really sick." I was really, really sick, I couldn't get out of bed to go pick up the kids. And it was about three o'clock in the afternoon and my husband doesn't get home until 6:00 normally. And I said to him, "You're going to have to pick up the kids." And a year ago, I would never have questioned, I would never have thought, I'm going to call my husband to pick up the kids.
And that is really bad, that it would a hundred percent fall on me to... And that's one of the examples, the responsibility. And I was like, "I'm sick as a dog, I probably would crash my car." And then he, no questions asked, he was like, "Yep, sure, I'll leave work now." And then a couple weeks later, I was sick and he actually stayed home to look after me because I was sick. And I got up and I was like, "Why aren't you at work?" And he's like, "Because you're sick and I'm going to look after you and the kids." And I was like, "Wow, this is amazing." But this did not come without effort and it did not come without struggle, and it came with time of me educating him, and it was well worth it.
Julia Jones:
Yes.
Ashley Winning:
Well worth it.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, I totally agree. Sometimes women are scared to have these hard conversations and they are hard conversations to have, and it's likely if you've got a husband, he's probably going to take it personally and get defensive and you're going to have to be strong on boundaries and what's important to you and all of that kind of stuff. But I agree, if you're both good, decent, respecting people, then you can definitely get there in the end.
Ashley Winning:
Definitely, yeah.
Julia Jones:
Are you listening to this awesome interview with a postpartum professional and thinking that this might be your calling in life too? Do you believe postpartum care could be a respected, valued, and well-paid profession but feel frustrated and don't know where to start? Newborn Mothers Collective is online, worldwide postpartum training and professional development with over a thousand students from 40 different countries around the world. We value human rights, scientific evidence, and diversity. And we'd love you to join us at newbornmothers.com.
What has been your journey of finding out what you actually sell and who you sell it to? (12:38 - 16:07)
Julia Jones:
And I want to hear a little bit about your journey too, about finding out what you actually sell and who you actually sell to, because you've tried a bunch of different things over the years. So yeah-
Ashley Winning:
I have.
Julia Jones:
... how did you figure that out?
Ashley Winning:
It's so easy to get distracted with all these things, and I found working in the Mastermind with you and having that guidance and support of a close-knit group of people was really helpful to keep my mind on track, because I get distracted by shiny objects all the time. Oh, maybe products will sell easier than a service, or maybe this will be better, or maybe that will be better, or this coach is selling this, this is the best idea for me. It's really hard to stay on track when you've got so many people telling you to do different things.
And at one point, I remember I was going to, I'd created baby milestone cards, I had them designed for my business and they're beautiful and it was just a gift to my clients. But at one stage, I was going to wholesale them and I was going to talk to Baby Bunting and I was going to get them here. And the amount of work, that's a business in itself. And the amount of work involved in that and the amount of return for the numbers I was looking at, I would've been making nothing.
And was it something that I really wanted to do at the end of the day? No. What I really wanted to do, which is what the passion of the business is, and what I wanted to do was work with women in an online space to give them the confidence, calm, and connection that they deserve. This all started with my experience and talking to other women about not having a safe space to share their journey, to be heard and be seen, and to share their experiences, and to turn to somebody that they trust. Me selling baby milestone cards is not my passion. The whole reason I started my business was so that I can support new mothers through pregnancy and when they've had their baby, to find their calm, connection, and confidence through motherhood, and to have a place where they can get the support without judgment, and have the guidance and the information that they need from somebody that they trust and know.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think we've talked about this a bit, but often people think, oh, I'll sell what people want to buy. And maybe you kind of had the idea, oh, people want baby milestone cards, so I'll do that. But business is never going to work if you're selling something that isn't your whole why, isn't the reason that you started a business. Because it's so hard to start a business, you can't just do a half-assed job of it, you have to be totally all in, don't you?
Ashley Winning:
Definitely, yeah. It's not like... Starting a business, because there's so much in the business that you're doing that you're not passionate about, the website writing, getting on social media, learning about all the social media, learning how to make videos, you didn't start your business to do that, you started your business to work with people to make life transformations and to change people's lives. And if you don't have the passion to keep you driving, then there's no way you're going to stick to it because you'll just get bored and burn out and it's so much easier just to go get a nine to five job than learning all this stuff and having to stick with it.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, I totally agree. And you've got to have that motivation, don't you-
Ashley Winning:
Definitely.
Julia Jones:
... to get you through definitely the boring bits.
Ashley Winning:
Definitely, yeah.
How have you shifted the narrative that you need to work yourself to the bone to succeed? (16:08 - 19:38)
Julia Jones:
Yeah. So tell me a little bit about your personality, maybe what you've learned about yourself and your strengths and weaknesses over this kind of journey. Because we talk about this a lot, but I think starting a business is one of the biggest personal development journeys you can go on, little bit like becoming a mother, and you can really learn so much about who you are and what's important.
Ashley Winning:
Yes, I am a very sensitive soul, so I'm an empath and a highly sensitive person, so I don't have a huge emotional resilience, which is interesting that I've chosen to put myself out there for possible failure because with business comes failure. So whenever I get a... setback or negative feedback or something that was constructive, although I want the feedback and I want to grow, it takes me a little bit of time to recover. So I've had to really nurture that side of my personality and really be aware of how much of an emotional toll this whole process has been. I also have some really interesting stories that go on in my mind, and I talk about this with my clients with motherhood stories.
And I think a lot of the clients that I work with have similar stories as well, or they've come up from similar situations and can relate. But some of the things that I've gone through is imposter syndrome, feeling not worthy or not enough, or the other one that drives me is I'm not doing enough. So then I'll get really busy and start doing all this work, but it's actually not work that is going to help me find more clients or work with clients, it's just being really busy and I've got to work my butt to the bone because I've got to tell this story that I'm doing a good job kind of thing. So that's been really interesting to learn about myself and to work with as well.
Julia Jones:
I think those hardworking stories are really interesting ones. We were having this chat actually on one of the collective class calls this morning that someone was saying they find it really hard to relax and they have to be productive all the time. Even if they're watching TV, they'll do ironing at the same time. And someone made the point that productivity is for robots, and I thought that was really, really true, but that's what this industrialized capitalist world has turned us into, isn't it? It's like everything has to be productive and efficient, it's a really bizarre thing.
Ashley Winning:
It is. And a lot of the business books and a lot of the websites and coaches out there talk about working hard. You're not going to have a good business or a successful business unless you work yourself to the bone. And one of the first courses or programs I worked with, the women who were teaching that, they were like, "This is on you, you've got to do it. If it doesn't work, it's your fault. It's no one else's fault." And I was like, "Oh my god, I need to do this." And it just didn't suit my personality, I need the soft nurturing.
So I've gravitated towards people like you and Denise and people who are like, "You don't have to work yourself to the bone because that doesn't really work with my story that well." So now I'm like, "I'm just chilling and I'll do my work." And now what I do is, I work when I'm supposed to work and then I don't feel guilty for it. I can relax when I want to relax and I need to relax, and I work when I need to work. And then I don't have that guilt anymore that I have to work all the time in every spare minute that I've got. I'm just like, "No, I've done my work and that's it."
What is the internal work you need to do within your business? (19:39 - 22:39)
Julia Jones:
Yeah, that's so interesting, isn't it? The only thing I'd say that is hard work that you definitely have to do is that internal work, which you do, but that doesn't mean you have to be actually at your computer. In fact, I think it's actually bad for you. I think if you're doing, doing, doing, taking action all the time, you don't spend enough time reflecting. And I think it's that reflection that gives you the big mindset shifts and the personal growth that is truly what's going to give you big shifts in your business. So yeah, that's the hard work.
Ashley Winning:
It is. And it's something that you promoted as well through your course. And at the time, I was like, "Yeah, I'll read that later. I'll get to that later." I just wanted to know all the info, how can I do my business? And you were like, "This is really important." I was like, "Yeah, I'll get to it later." And then it wasn't until I realized that actually mindset is probably 80% of it because I was realizing that I was holding myself and my business back because I was afraid of failing. It wasn't a conscious thought that was coming in saying, Hey Ashley, you're afraid, that's why you're not doing it.
It was showing up in different ways, like not putting myself out there, not creating blogs, not putting up things that could be controversial on social media, like breastfeeding. So me sharing breastfeeding truths because I didn't want to offend or upset any mothers who would perhaps argue with me about it, or in those kind of ways. And so I've been able to work through those blocks, recognize them, and work through them. And I've still got a million others to work through as I grow, I'm in a constant growth cycle and it's interesting what comes up and I'm really lucky to have some really amazing supportive business friends that will pat me on the back and say, "You're doing a good job. I experience the same thing." And just to know that you're not alone and to know that it's normal and just keep going and keep working through them.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, and back to our earlier topic of starting a business when you've got small children, it is, I think, one of the big benefits of starting a business when you've got a baby or toddlers, is that you do have that in between time to let everything digest and sink in. I would find when I had babies, I'd be studying a course or learning about marketing or something, and I'd do a lesson that kind of would blow my mind a bit, but then I'd spend the next day at park or a play group or playing wherever, and that would give me time to really absorb what I was learning before I took action. So actually having those enforced breaks to just let my brain all marinate in it, was actually really valuable, I think. So even though it's frustrating because you're like, "I don't have time to implement," but what you do have time when you're also part-time parenting is that time to let it all sink in.
Ashley Winning:
Definitely.
What have you created to support New Mothers or second-time mothers to feel calm, confident and connected? (22:40 - 26:46)
Julia Jones:
That's awesome, Ashley. Do you want to tell us a little bit about what else you're up to right now? Where's your business currently at?
Ashley Winning:
Yeah, so I went through a big... I've gone through... I've tried all these things, I've tried different things. I am currently working on a beautiful program that I created that I've had a group of wonderful women come through who have just become new mothers or second time mothers. And when you create a new program, you're kind of like, "Is this good?"
You know that it's good, you know that it's something that you would want, and then when you get the affirmations and you hear from these women that they're feeling calm, confident, and connected the way that you wanted them to be, and one of them even said that she felt over prepared as a first time mum. I thought that was amazing that she's feeling really confident and intuitive, and my job's done basically now. They're in a very confident situation in motherhood and they'll always need, as we all do, we always need some guidance and support. But it was really great to get that first group through. So the program's called Journey into Motherhood, which is quite fitting, really, going into the motherhood journey.
But yeah, that's what I'm working on, that's what think is important, working on the mindset and the guidance and the connection with women who may have... It was interesting for me because you have this idea of who you're going to work with, and while they still had things that I was expecting them, they did the hypnobirthing, they wanted natural births, that sort of thing, there was some other things that I was surprised about.
A lot of them had support around them with midwives, seeing the same midwife and that sort of thing, but they wanted a special place where they could be seen and heard and have a place where they can talk. So it was a really great lesson to get that connection and go through that process, which brought a lot of joy to my life. I know I shared the story and the journey in the collective group because I like to let everyone know what's going on, I love to share my journey and the mindset things that I overcome. So yeah, it's really great working in that program.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, and I'm so happy for you too because over the number of years we have tried many different business iterations, haven't we?
Ashley Winning:
Mm-hmm.
Julia Jones:
So yeah, it's great when something finally lands. And if anyone's interested in learning more, the URL is themotherhoodcircle.com.au. We'll put the link up in the show notes. And Ashley, do you have anything else do you want to add before we finish up?
Ashley Winning:
No, I think that's it. I think whoever's listening, because I know you've got a mixture of mothers and also doulas, I think regardless of who you are, you're probably a woman anyways. But the most important thing is that you give time and love to yourself and that you give yourself that love and work on your mindset because everyone has to work in their mindset forever. There's some really great resources out there for you to listen to, to read, and to really start taking some self-care, some time and really work out what it is that you want, whether that's in your pregnancy and postpartum journey or whether that's in your business. Really go with what aligns with your heart and what you feel is right for you, which is what's happened with me. I tried all these things, I felt a lot of resistance, and I've come back and realized, this is definitely the path for me, so it's always a great thing to listen to that intuition.
Julia Jones:
Yes, yes. Oh, thank you so much for sharing, Ashley.
Ashley Winning:
Thank you.
Julia Jones:
I love the way that you do really openly share your story and I know, this is why I invited you on the podcast, because I know in the graduates group, people do learn a lot from your openness. Yeah, so I hope our listeners have as well today.
Ashley Winning:
Thank you so much for having me on, I love connecting with you and of course sharing my journey as well.
Julia Jones:
Awesome, thanks Ashley. See ya.
Ashley Winning:
Thank you, bye.
