Podcast Episode 96 - Two-minute moves that change motherhood
Interview with Lizzie Williamson
I chat with Lizzie Williamson, founder of Two Minute Moves. Together we discuss Lizzie’s story of finding her way through postpartum depression with movement, the mindset shift to all-or-something, and taking that first step. At the core of this conversation, we explore how to bring movement as a tool for well-being into motherhood in small ways.
Listen now
About Lizzie
Lizzie's journey began as a professional dancer, however, life took a turn when she faced post-natal depression. This led to the creation of 'Two Minute Moves' – her solution to infuse exercise into even the busiest of schedules or toughest of days. Lizzie's lively keynotes and Two Minute Moves sessions have energised organisations around the world plus conferences featuring President Barack Obama, Michelle Obama, Tony Robbins and the Dalai Lama. As a certified personal trainer and advocate for mental health, Lizzie is a familiar face on morning television screens.
We explore the following questions:
How did you come up with the idea for Two Minute Moves and how did you start?
You were a professional dancer but what happened to your dancing when you had children?
What was it that finally helped you to turn a corner with postnatal depression?
How did moving your body become such a big part of your healing? What else did you try?
How did you take the leap from that first little move for yourself to jumping on YouTube and creating those two little moves for other people?
Two Minute Moves is really big now! Can you tell us a little bit about how Two Minute Moves grew?
Can movement help you in your business too?
Additional resources:
Lizzie’s website and book - https://www.lizziewilliamson.com/
If this podcast has brought up some big feelings for you please reach out to PANDA (Maternal mental health support) - https://panda.org.au/
If you enjoy the podcast please leave a 5-star rating and a review. Unsure how to do this? It's easy!
Mac or PC Users
Open up iTunes and in the library's search box, type 'Newborn Mothers' and select the Newborn Mothers podcast in the search results
Tap "Ratings and Reviews" and then "Write a Review"
Write your review and leave a 5-star rating and tap "Send"
iPhone Users
Open up the Podcast App and tap the "Search" button in the bottom navigation.
In the search box, type 'Newborn Mothers' and click on the Newborn Mothers podcast in the search results
Scroll down to "Rating & Reviews" and tap "Write a Review." Let us know what you think, leave a 5-star rating and tap "Send."
Spotify on Android
Open your Spotify app and search “Newborn Mothers Podcast”
Under the Newborn Mothers profile, click the 5-star button
Select the 5-star rating and click “Submit”
Transcript
Julia Jones:
Hello and welcome to the Newborn Mothers Podcast. Today we've got Lizzie Williamson on. You might know her on YouTube as Two Minute Moves. Lizzie, I'm so excited to have you here because you've been a regular person in my life for many years now. I actually have a little Asana task, (Asana is the software I use to do my project management) and it flicks up recurring every day, ‘Two Minute Moves’ just to remind me to get up and move. I started out always using your YouTube videos, but now the philosophy is kind of spread and sometimes I just put on a song. Sometimes I just run down to the mailbox. My mailbox is down about five flights of stairs and back up again. But I now have that Two Minute Moves philosophy embedded in my lifestyle. So I am really excited to have you here. Thank you so much.
Lizzie Williamson:
Well, you've made my day now. That's brilliant to hear.
Where did you come up with the idea for Two Minute Moves and where did you start? (00:56)
Julia Jones:
When I started doing your Two Minute Moves, I didn't realize that your journey started in postnatal depression. So introduce yourself in your own words and we can talk a little bit about where you started and how you came up with this idea.
Lizzie Williamson:
It's so interesting that something can come from a time where we just are in it and think Nothing good is ever going to come out of this time. How am I going to get out of this time? You feel so stuck and incapable of doing anything that's beyond those day-to-day tasks. That was me when I had a baby and a toddler. I found myself in quite a dark place actually. That's where it all stemmed from, this idea what came to be Two Minute Moves. So from there I went on to share this idea, to write a book, to be on TV, to working with organizations and conferences around the world. But it all started in this time that if I'd had a crystal ball, I mean, I don't even think I would believe it, that I was able to have this awesome thing come out of that time.
Julia Jones:
Yes, yes. So let's rewind a bit. Before you had children, you were a dancer.
Lizzie Williamson:
Yes, I was. I danced all around the world and I was doing the Can-can at casinos and chorus lines on cruise ships, and I was quite young. I started doing that when I was 18. I always, always loved to dance. It was my thing. I grew up in a little country town. It was always going to be my ticket out of my country town to get down to Sydney from Gympie. And it brought me so much joy. That's where I was every single morning before school. For an hour, I'd be there, my little ballet bar in the corner of the little garage and dancing. I just always loved to dance and to move.
What happened to dancing when you had children? (03:10)
Julia Jones:
What happened when you had children?
Lizzie Williamson:
I found myself really incapable of doing the thing that had made me always feel really good. It's like I couldn't get myself to do it. It's so strange because I would've always thought that if I had someone who was struggling with their mental health, who had depression, anxiety, all of those things, I would think, “You need to exercise. You need to move. It makes you feel so good, why don't you do that?" But of course, when I was in that situation, I was so shocked that it felt almost impossible to get myself to do the thing I knew was going to make me feel so good. I had a lot of really dark, dark thoughts. I had no idea what had happened to the very positive action taker person I had always been. I pictured myself that I was going to be this incredible earth mother and I was just going to be this perfect mum who swan around and making amazing muffins and homemade food for their children and doing all these amazing things and loving every minute of it.
And that wasn't my reality. I was really, really dark and I remember sitting there and looking around the house and there was washing to be put away and stuff to be done and just feeling... I just couldn't cope with it. I also remember feeling like such a failure as a mum that I wasn't coping. I remember thinking to myself, "How dare you with all that you have here. You have two healthy children, you've got all this support, a roof over your head, food to eat, all of those things. How dare you not be coping? There are so many people worse often you get over it, get on with it and just let's go." And no matter what I said to myself, I couldn't seem to pull myself out of this darkness that I was in.
Julia Jones:
Had you quit dancing in order to have children, that wasn't your job anymore?
Lizzie Williamson:
No, it wasn't. I'd actually moved into producing theater. I started doing a little bit of acting classes, realized that wasn't for me, started producing theater, and then I actually became an agent for actors, and that's when I had kids.
What was it that finally helped you to turn a corner with postnatal depression? (06:00)
Julia Jones:
So you didn't have any kind of reason making you start dancing again. If you had a work schedule and you had to get fit again and you had to perform again, but it was up to you to find that motivation, which is really hard. What was it that finally helped you to turn that corner?
Lizzie Williamson:
Yeah, I mean, you're so right about it being hard because I just remember thinking, well, I would go to do a boxing class or some kind of yoga class or something. Now it just felt like even, I couldn't just walk out the door whenever I wanted to and I didn't have that hour. And I was too tired to do a certain amount of intensity, so I was not doing anything. On top of that, I had this... it turns out when I finally went and saw my doctor that she said to me, what you're experiencing is postnatal depression. What made me finally go to my doctor is, gosh, it was so hard to go and get help. I remember I was just sitting on the floor and Stella and Ruby, my two little girls were upstairs and they were in their cots and they were crying out. My husband walked home and walked in the door and he just looked at me and he pretty much begged me to go and get some help and said to me, "You falling apart means this whole family is falling apart. Please go and get some help with this." And so that's what I did.
I didn't even tell my doctor everything that I was experiencing, the dark thoughts and everything, I was so ashamed about it. Oh my gosh, I was so ashamed. I hadn't heard of anyone else then, this was 15 years ago, I hadn't heard anyone else who was having these type of thoughts and wanting to throw my baby out the window, all of those type of things. I hadn't heard of anyone. There was no social media. But I think what happened was when I talked to my doctor and she said, "This is what's happening to you. This is what's happening." And all of a sudden I thought, "Oh, okay. This isn't just me. I'm not the only one experiencing this. I guess that there is nothing wrong with me, but there's something going on here that needs some attention."
So she gave me some treatment options and she said to me, "When you get on a plane and they tell you to put your oxygen mask on first before assisting others in emergency," she said, "that's what you have to do as well." So that was such a turning point, finally starting to admit to someone what was going on with me. Because I would go out to playgroups and see people. I just put on a big smile on my face and I'd look around and think everyone else is coping. Everyone else is loving this motherhood thing. No one else is having these issues like you. Come on, what's wrong with you? So I just put on a smile on my face and I would just fake it through. I remember several times just picking up my girls and just running out of the playgroup and walking out of the stairs and just crying because I felt like such a failure that I wasn't able to experience this motherhood thing like I thought I would.
Julia Jones:
Yeah. Isn't it interesting that even... I mean the depression alone is enough to cope with, but then all these layers of shame and hiding how you really feel, just add such a bigger load to that experience. So I'm really glad your husband did say, "Look, you need to talk to someone." And that you were then brave enough to actually, even if you didn't tell the doctor everything, but you obviously just said enough to get you started on this new path, but it's a really hard thing to do. So I'm glad you had that support and I'm glad you had that courage as well.
Lizzie Williamson:
Yeah, sometimes you have to dig quite deep and I think when it's beyond just you, I was there with these two little girls that I loved so much. I think there was something about that moment after seeing my doctor and just sitting there on the edge of my bed and just before everyone got home and thinking, "You've got to dig deep here and you've got to make a decision, find some grit or something inside of you to take some kind of action here."
Julia Jones:
So it really was that idea of putting on your own oxygen mask. You needed to do this for your children of your family.
Lizzie Williamson:
But I remember thinking, "Okay, but what is this oxygen mask? What could it be?"
Julia Jones:
What is it?
Lizzie Williamson:
I was so sleep-deprived, so tired, couldn't even go to the toilet without a toddler following me. No time. I remember feeling incredibly hopeless about it all, but I did make a decision and my decision was that I needed to find a way to move my body.
How did moving your body become such a big part of your healing? Did you try anything else first? (11:33)
Julia Jones:
Yes. And that was obviously a big part of your healing. That's where we are all these years later. Were there other things you tried first or did you just know that that was the thing that was going to make a big difference for you?
Lizzie Williamson:
I really did have that moment sitting on my bed and I saw the M-O-V-E, it's like move, move. It’s crazy to think back now about this time because for me now movement, it just comes easier. I can just go to my kitchen bench and do 20 pushups. It doesn't take this insane amount of effort. But I remember that next day after seeing my doctor and going to my kitchen bench and saying to myself, just move, do it, do something. Even just doing this one little plié, which is a ballet leg bend at that kitchen bench, oh my gosh, it felt so hard to get myself to do it, but I've got myself to do it. And then I did another one and another one, and that became my little moment that I would take in my day that I would just go down, do two minutes left.
It didn't matter as long as I was doing something, because I remember after I did that couple of minutes on that first day, and I remember lying in bed that night, and normally I would go through the list of all the things that I wasn't doing right as a mum. I wasn't teaching my toddler their ABCs. I wasn't feeding them beautiful pumpkin organic puree. And this night I went, "You know what? But I did something for me. I did that little thing at my kitchen bench." That feeling, that little tiny feeling of achievement was really something for me, and that's why I kept doing it each day, each day. There's a ripple effect that comes I think, from taking one little bit of action.
Another thing I did from doing that, I remember I started to think, "You've got to nourish yourself better. You've got to stop just eating your kids soggy leftover crusts and chop up some vegetables for yourself or something." I remember then actually talking to a friend and telling her how I was really feeling. Then I remember getting more professional help going to see a counselor and a psychologist. So it just started to ripple out from just that little tiny action, even though at the time I remember being, "Well really come on, little tiny moment here, really what's that going to do?" It's not the whole hour going to the gym, doing all the things I always used to do. But when I started doing it for a while, I'm thinking, "Oh wow, okay. I can't believe it. But that little moment actually does count for something."
Julia Jones:
Yeah, I completely agree. I think that's a really big shift when you become a parent is, I know before I had kids, I used to do one and a half hour yoga classes and I used to love to meditate for a whole hour in the mornings and have this whole beautiful week of things. Then after I had kids, I think I had the same thing. I just stopped completely because I was like, "Well, if it's not an hour and a half of yoga, what's even the point?" It took me a long time to realize that just doing anything was better than doing nothing and that that really does start that positive feedback spiral, doesn't it? You feel good and then you want to do more, and then that makes you feel even better, and that makes you have a bit more motivation to do a little bit more. It doesn't have to be a huge first step. You just take that... you just do that plié, that one little thing.
Lizzie Williamson:
One little thing. And man, I realized I was so stuck in that all or nothing mindset. Then when I started to talk to people, I realized so many of us were stuck in this all or nothing mindset. If it can't look this perfect way, we don't do anything. That's when I realized actually this needs to be an all or something mindset. Something is so much better than nothing. Two minutes is so much better than no minutes because you're right. What happens then is it starts to build slowly, slowly, very slowly, starts to build momentum, and you don't see it for ages. But then you can look back and go, "Oh my gosh, that little moment that I did been doing every day, a tiny little thing, I thought counted for nothing. It's all starting to add up, add up, add up, and here I am."
How did you take the leap from that first little move for yourself to jumping on YouTube and creating those two little moves for other people? (16:00)
Julia Jones:
So what was your next step then, from taking that first little move for yourself to then jumping on YouTube and creating those two little moves for other people? How did you take that leap?
Lizzie Williamson:
Social media hadn't started really, I don't think. I remember a really good friend of my sister, she was telling me about how she was struggling with her mental health. I said to her, "Look, I started doing this little moves at my kitchen bench. Why don't I take a little video of it and you can give it to your sister just as one piece of the pie? It's not this whole, here you go now everything's totally fine. Just maybe a little way that she could start bringing a bit more exercise, movement back into her day." Then I got a message from her saying, that helps me so much. Thank you. Then I heard of someone else, so I'd filmed them a little video. So I started filming them for friends and then YouTube, social media, everything came to be. So then I started putting them up there and then wrote the book and it went from there.
Two-Minute Moves is really big now! Can you tell us a little bit about where Two Minute Moves is now? (17:34)
Julia Jones:
And now it's really big. Can you tell us a little bit about where Two Minute Moves is now?
Lizzie Williamson:
It's so amazing. It's not like I have got hundreds of thousands of followers on Instagram or whatever, but I hear from all these people who are doing their Two Minute Moves and I'll get little videos. I got one of someone who... actually, this mum I met, and she works on a farm, a dairy farm, and she said, I'm going to start doing some squats after I closed the gate, putting the cows in every day whenever she does that. So she sent me a video of her out in the paddock doing her squat. So even though she was physically active in her work, there's something about doing an intentional bit of movement for you. Here's something that's going to get me stronger, make me feel stronger. Yeah, I have people send me little videos of them as they hang up the washing, doing some squats and pushups at the kitchen bench, brushing their teeth.
So it is this amazing thing that's starting to... this philosophy that people were going, "Oh yeah, I'm doing my Two Minute Moves." I was traveling to this speaking gig and I was at the front of the plane, it was an international flight, doing some Two Minute Moves, stretches and everything. This mum came up to me and said, "Oh, I just want to say hello. I follow your Two Minute Moves." And she said, "I'd love to be doing what you're doing, but I've got my three kids sitting there with me on the row on the plane." I said, "Okay, let's swap. I'm going to go sit with your kids and you can come up here and do your Two Minute Moves stretches there." So that's what we did.
Julia Jones:
I love it. But you're being a little bit humble there because I know that you've been on national television in Australia. I know that you've been on national television in America as well. You've also spoken to some really famous people, and it's some really massive events at a world scale. So you really have had a huge impact with those little bits of movement.
Lizzie Williamson:
I've been doing it for quite a while, and my youngest is now 15, and I think I'm such an impatient person. I always just think, "Come on, it's got to go. It's got to go. It's got to be bigger and better." I think what I've learned from this, and especially I think being a mum and running a business, that it's okay if it takes some time. It's all right if it takes a bit longer. Whatever you can do in the time that you have, even just a little bit, something each day towards something you are wanting to create, over time it starts to build up. Years later, it's nice you built some foundations and you're ready to fly.
Julia Jones:
I love it. Most of our listeners are mums starting businesses. So I think hearing that you can just take a little step because sometimes when you're right in the thick of that sleep deprivation and you might get a 45-minute nap and that's all you get to work on your business that day, it can be really frustrating. But just like the Two Minute Moves, any little action you take, over time it builds up and builds up and it's so amazing to see how that grows and where that leads to when you just start with that little step.
Lizzie Williamson:
You've got to trust those little steps. You need to trust in those small steps. Because I remember being there, rock bottom, and I felt like I was just waiting, waiting for this big thing to come along and fix everything, waiting for this big magic pill or something. I fall into that sometimes in terms of my business, I'm waiting to have this big amount of time to write the book, waiting till I can bash 20 videos together. Really, it's if you can just take that little moment every day, like I said in the TEDx talk, it's that steam train stationary at the station and that effort to get that thing moving is just enormous, you never think it's going to happen. It's little bit by little bit, it starts to build and move and then and off it goes. You never think it's going to go, but it's just those tiny little bits and then voof off you go.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, I love it. So it's hard to kind of get the momentum. It's hard to start, and then once it's going, it just goes and goes and goes.
Lizzie Williamson:
Yes, slowly, but goes.
Julia Jones:
Slowly, slow and steady.
Lizzie Williamson:
It seems to me the inching seems to take a long time in your small business, that's for sure.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, yeah. It's always really nice to hear from people like you who people would look at your website and go, "What would Lizzie know? She's so successful. She's never had any challenges. It's so easy for her." But no, it's just a little bit every day and you keep going, and sometimes you don't think it's going to work, but you just still do it anyway. It's really nice to hear that.
Lizzie Williamson:
Oh, totally, every day. Every day I think is a challenge in business and in motherhood as well. So often you think, "Oh, I don't have a clue what I'm doing, or just got to do something. Let's take action. Let's just try this."
How does movement help you in your business?
Julia Jones:
Yes. I think Two Minute Moves have helped me a lot in my business as well. I find I think similar to when you're depressed and you feel emotionally stuck, just getting up and moving your body just helps you with that. Getting your emotions moving as well, and feeling emotionally less stuck. The same thing in my business sometimes when I'm like, "Ah, just don't know what I should do, which direction I should go in" and I'm like, "Just walk away from the computer. Just walk down to the beach. Even just dance to a song." It doesn't have to be a big deal and come back to it. Often moving my body when I feel afraid or stuck or nervous or unsure of what to do. I think that's really helped me in my business to have that courage to take some risks and take action and things too.
Lizzie Williamson:
There's so much science and research behind what you're saying. I've just written a book that's actually out in January 2024, and it's called The Active Workday Advantage. It's true, movement is medicine. Movement is brain power, movement can change your mindset, your mood, can enhance connections because our bodies and our brains are designed to function at their best through movement. When you do move all these amazing chemicals and hormones and things happen for you, it's like we've got this inner pharmacy inside of us waiting to come out when we move. So why not use that when we're in our work days.
Where's the best place for people to find out about you? (24:23)
Julia Jones:
I love it. So I'm going to leave it there, and you've got two books and your website, your YouTube channel. Where's the best place for people to find out about you?
Lizzie Williamson:
Yeah, my website is lizziewilliamson.com and I'm on Instagram at @EnergizewithLizzie E-N-E-R-G-I-Z-E, Energize with Lizzie. If you pop in Lizzie Williamson to minute moves, you'll find me and would absolutely love to connect with you.
Julia Jones:
Amazing. We'll pop all those links in the show notes, and it's been fantastic to talk to you, Lizzie. Thanks so much.
Lizzie Williamson:
Thank you so much, Julia.
Julia Jones:
Bye.
Lizzie Williamson:
Bye.
