Moroccan Postpartum Care
Expert Interview with Layla B
In this episode, I am joined by Entrepreneur and mother Layla B. Identifying as a soulful changemaker, Layla works as a traditional Moroccan postpartum trainer, business mentor, writer and philanthropist.
Layla is dedicated to reviving, reclaiming and restoring sacred and ancient traditional Moroccan postpartum medicine. She supports heart-centred birth workers and women's wellness professionals to create impact, influence and income in a soulful business and life they love.
Layla discusses her experience of giving birth in England, her journey to studying postpartum care in Morocco and some very special postpartum traditions.
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We explore the following questions:
Can you tell me about the journey that led you to focus on traditional Moroccan postpartum medicine?
How did your personal postpartum experience influence your decision to study and share Moroccan postpartum traditions?
What are the six stages of Moroccan postpartum care that you have learned and practice?
How can mothers and professionals listening incorporate more of these traditional practices into their own lives?
Why is it important to prepare for postpartum care during pregnancy?
What are the benefits of warming foods in traditional postpartum care?
How are new mothers celebrated in Morocco, and what are some specific examples of these celebrations?
Can you describe the traditional Moroccan steam bath (Hamam) and its role in postpartum care?
What is the significance of the "closing of the bones" ceremony in Moroccan postpartum traditions?
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Transcript
Julia Jones:
Hello and welcome to Newborn Weathers Podcast. Today on the show I'm interviewing Layla B, who is somewhat a bit of an international postpartum educator, but really diving deep into Moroccan traditions and has just some amazing things to share and some knowledge to uphold, I suppose. So do you want to introduce yourself, Layla?
Layla B:
Yes, thank you, Julia. Thanks for having me. So my name's Layla B. I am originally Moroccan. I'm British as well. I'm a mother of three small children. I'm also an entrepreneur and a traditional postpartum trainer, but I focus specifically on traditional Moroccan postpartum medicine. So my aim is to try and revive, reclaim, and restore it. So that's what I've been doing for the past few years now.
Julia Jones:
I love it. And I know that your background, obviously, like most of us in this kind of area, you really got this sparked when you had your own postpartum experiences and you had your first baby in the uk, is that right?
Layla B:
Yes. My first born was in the uk. He's about four and a half years old now, so I had nothing to do with the birth world. Then I had a background in marketing. I was working with charities and I studied accounting. So yeah, I was pregnant. In my mind, I wanted a natural birth, so I didn't think I really had to prepare for it. I just thought, okay, it will just come naturally. But then obviously I went to give birth in a hospital in England, so I didn't know or didn't think about all the interventions. I didn't take any classes, so my birth didn't turn out the way it was. It was quite negative experience. So I ended up with an epitomy. It was still a vaginal birth, but I had an epitomy, so many drugs. So after the birth, I was feeling sick and tired. Luckily, my mom was there to feed me and take care of me, but that inspired me to learn more for myself and to try and help other women as well. And so yeah, my journey started from there. I took a childbirth education training here in the UAE, and from there I was inspired to start a conference, an international natural birth and breastfeeding conference over two years. So we had international speakers, local speakers, and that's how it started.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, love it. And your mother is Moroccan, that's your Moroccan connection?
Layla B:
Yes. No, both my parents are Moroccan. We're all originally Moroccan. I'm just British. My father went to England a long time ago, and he worked there, so obviously he got the British citizenship, and I was born there as well. But yeah, my mom's originally Moroccan, my whole family in Moroccan tradition, usually the mom, mother-in-law, sister, auntie, some female relative will be there to help the new mother. Well, my mother was there actually while I was pregnant. So two to three months before I gave birth, her and my father would spend those few months with me helping me cooking for me, I would just do nothing or whatever I wanted to do. And then obviously after the birth, they would spend another, at least a month, two months with me. So yeah, it was good.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, it's beautiful. It's like you go back to being their little girl again. It's a bit like being really babied and cared for in a really positive way,
Layla B:
Especially when you're living far away. I'm not living in Morocco currently. I'm living in Dubai, so very far away, so it's quite difficult. So I'm lucky that they were able to come and I was able to go and get that. Yeah,
Julia Jones:
Right. So they're in their UAE, because I know you spend a lot of time there too.
Layla B:
I'm living in the UAE. My parents live in Morocco.
Julia Jones:
Okay. Yeah. So that's why you're always all over the place. And so your mother then must have introduced you during that first postpartum experience, even though you had a very difficult birth. She must have introduced you to some of the Moroccan traditional care.
Layla B:
Yes, yes. Well, the thing with my mom, so she did introduce me to some of the traditional practises such as eating, warming foods, eating good food, nourishing food. She was doing that. Anyway, since we've been born, she's been always preparing meals for us and healthy food, things like that. However, the other traditions, such as closing of the bones and other certain things, she had never heard of, I think because she went to give birth in England. So when she married my father, they were in the uk. And so she had all her three children in England, and she had absolutely nobody to support her because her mom was living in Morocco, didn't have money to come to England, and they couldn't get visa. So she was alone the whole time. She had no support. So a lot of that knowledge wasn't passed on to her or she didn't get to experience. However, still she got to take care of me, feed me, and just do whatever I needed basically.
Julia Jones:
So she still had that basic idea, that sort of principle of mothering the mother, even if she didn't have those details and the benefits herself?
Layla B:
Yes, yes. The Moroccan culture is very much like that anyways. People stick together, they support each other. If someone's sick, then people will be visiting them, bringing food, taking care of them. So there's a lot of support anyways, and it's kind of expected I didn't have to ask like, oh, mom, are you coming? Stay with me, please, can you come? I knew she was coming to take care of me. So yeah, the culture is like that anyways, but then for the new mother, we call her the NFI in Moroccan Arabic. So she was very highly regarded. Traditionally now still as well, but before it was even more so the traditional midwives always tell me that the new mother was like a bride. So if you've met or known of a Moroccan bride, lots of preparation and planning takes place. So many outfits, so many different foods. It's like a huge event. It's very important. And the new mother was like that as well. So we had to make sure she had the right foods, she was taken care of. She doesn't lift a finger, she just relaxes in bed. She gets hena done. She has the hamam, which is a traditional steam bath. So she was very much taken care of all the time. So people, it's part of the culture now.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, I love it. And then you obviously decided from your own postpartum experience to go back to Morocco and learn more about these traditions because in Morocco and all over the world they are, we are at risk of losing them completely. It's often been a generational or two since they've really been actively practised, largely due to colonisation, industrialization, globalisation. But I love that you decided to go back and find some traditional midwives, and can you tell me about that journey for you as well?
Layla B:
Yes, sure. Well, throughout my life, basically I've just gone with the flow. So I let wherever life leads me, even with my studies, first I was doing international business. I didn't really like it. I went to accounting and marketing. I was working with charities, I was working with fashion companies. I did the master in fashion marketing. So I just go where life takes me. And so as I told you, when I gave birth, I was interested in birth work and childbirth, education, doula work, but I was mainly focusing on the conference. And then after my birth, I think it was the second birth, she was born in Dubai. And then I went back to Morocco and there was a lady that we know, we've known her for years. She was at my mom's house and she said, oh, did you get someone to close your bones?
Layla B:
Did you have that already? I had never even heard of that. Then I said, what are you talking about? That doesn't make any sense. She said, come, let me show you. So she just took the scarf off her head and she told me to lay the floor, and she just started wrapping her scarf on my head, going all the way down from my head to my toes. And it felt really good. And she did it really quickly because she had some work to do. And I was like, oh, what's that? And she said, yeah, this is a tradition. My mom, her mom's a traditional midwife. She said, my mom has learned that, and she experienced that she had all her children at home. I said, okay. I didn't think anything of it. It was in my mind the whole time. And then eventually I thought, okay, this sounds interesting.
Layla B:
Let me start looking more into the postpartum traditions of the new mother. And so I was led down that path. And ever since I'm not doing the conference anymore, this is my main focus. So I live in the north of Morocco, and Morocco is very diverse. So you could go to the central, to the south, and people look different. The language, we sound different, and there's lots of different traditions. So I'm hoping to explore further down south. But my knowledge now is mainly from the north of Morocco. And yeah, I met a few traditional midwives, mainly from the town of where my parents were born. It's a very small town and everyone knows everyone. So the traditional midwife I was studying and still studying with her mother-in-law, passed it down to her. And her mother-in-law was actually the one supporting my grandma, some of my aunties.
Layla B:
So it's all connected. So now I'm on that journey and still studying with traditional midwives in Morocco, and they're really lovely. They've passed on their blessings to share this knowledge, and the knowledge differs. So there's different traditions, the closing of the bones in the Moroccan way, there's different styles that different ladies do. So I'm still learning and I'm still sharing. And as you said, there is because of colonisation and industrialization, globalisation, modernization, everything slowly, slowly, slowly, the traditions are dying. And I see that in Morocco as well. So with the traditional midwives I'm learning with, so they're 60 plus their age, and no one wants to take on those roles. So they have nobody who will continue that knowledge as of yet. Maybe someone will, but as of yet, no one has. It's a really low income job. They do most of their work for free. They live on donations. Most of the people are served, have little to no income. So it's not really, people now want to study and they're going to university and trying to make a life for themselves. So we can see why people don't want to take on those roles, which is fair enough.
Layla B:
So I'm trying to revive, reclaim, and restore that knowledge through the work I'm doing. I do retreats. I'm trying to write a book on all of this stuff. When I have time, I'm preparing an online course. So other women around the world can study these things and offer them to women in their communities if they want to. So I think it's important to keep the knowledge alive. I think America, we still have a strong culture, and these things are passed down orally, but maybe in a few decades that may not be the case, because things are changing drastically. The country's becoming much more modern, which is a good thing. But also these old traditions are becoming very old school, and we need to go. People are going to hospitals to give birth. We have high caesarean rates and things are changing a lot. So yeah, that's my mission right now.
Julia Jones:
Oh, it's beautiful and it's so important. And of all the things you learned, I know that a lot and you've learned a lot. What do you feel are perhaps the most important or your favourite or the most special kind of postpartum traditions in Morocco? Well, I think where to start,
Layla B:
From what I've learned with the ladies and from my life living in Morocco, and as a Moroccan woman, I've broken it down into there's six stages, what I've seen. So we have welcoming her, honouring her, nourishing her, nurturing her, closing her, and celebrating her. That's seven, I think. I dunno. Well, to me it's a whole flow. So from my experience, when you have to have the good food, for me, the recovery without, if my mom was giving me just peanut butter sandwiches or something like that, I would not be happy. Especially growing up in Morocco, you need to have big meals, hearty meals, something warm soups. We have lots, lots of soupy dishes, lots of herbs and spices, things that are warming. So that's extremely important. If you don't eat well, you're not going to recover and you're going to be tired. You need to try and feed your baby.
Layla B:
You're trying to recover yourself. So that for me is extremely important. The food and the drinks, however, at the same time, it's like a package. So it's like you're going on a journey. So while you're being nourished, you're also being nurtured. So you get to have the wash, it's a nice hot, everything is hot and warm, so a nice warm bath. And then right after the bath, your bones are closed. So in one day you could go through all the stages, you're welcomed, you're always honoured, you're nourished, and then you get your hamam, your nurturing, then you're closed and celebrated. So this is all a celebration, the way you're being treated, the way your people visiting you, bringing food and taking care of you. So it's like one whole journey and they all interconnect together. But food I think is definitely important. And having someone there around you, they don't need to talk to you, just nice knowing someone's there and getting the support. So it's all important.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, I love it. So those six stages, again, it was welcoming, honouring, nourishing, nurturing, closing and celebrating. Yeah. Yes.
Layla B:
Six. Yeah,
Julia Jones:
Six. I love it. And so this can kind of work you're saying in a cyclical way, because it can be a cycle that would happen within an hour or within a day, within a week, and even over your whole journey. I'm imagining that I often feel like the first year or even two sometimes can feel like a really big milestone where there can be some celebrating, closing and celebrating in the longer stages as well.
Layla B:
Yes, definitely. Now I'm one year postpartum with my last baby, but I still feel I need the ham moms, I need the good food, I still need that care. But as you said, these six stages, they take place throughout the 40 days. They take place throughout the first few months at least, but they happen all the time. So within one day you are fed something, you're being fed all the time. And usually some of the traditional midwives within the first week, they'll have given a new mother, the Hamam, it's a traditional Moroccan steam bath, so you can replicate at home. So it's really hot, steamy. And then they wash the new mother with olive soap. And then we have a clay, natural clay called Raul. So the mother is rub, massaged and washed. You don't lift a finger. And so this could happen, and then you would, as soon as you're done, the closing would come after that.
Layla B:
And then you're just put down, they let you rest and sleep. If you need to feed your baby, you do. There's always someone around to help with the baby, and you're eating throughout the day. And yeah, you just relax basically. Even when visitors come, traditionally the new mom would stay in her room and her bed, and people, if they wanted to see her, they would come say hello. Usually women only men would just stay in the sitting room and visit the husband or the partner, whoever. So yeah, the mom would get these six stages throughout, could be on a day. It would be throughout her first 40 days. So it's a journey that keeps going on and on and on.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, I love it. I love it so much. And have you got any suggestions for people who are listening to this at home? I'm imagining there's both mothers listening as well as professionals listening. They're thinking, how can I incorporate more of this into my own life? Have you got any suggestions on how they can do that?
Layla B:
I think it's important in pregnancy to start thinking about these things. For me, I didn't. I had to give birth and then think, oh, what should I do? But I was lucky, as I told you, my mom, naturally, as soon as I gave birth, she would come from her house to the hospital and bring me a thermos full of hot soup. So I didn't have to tell her, or I didn't really have to prepare for that. But for other women, if they're not in that same situation, or if they don't have family around or like I do in Dubai, I'm quite on my own. I don't have that village or that tribe to support me. So I think it's important in pregnancy now, we talk a lot about the birth plans, but I think we also need to focus on the postpartum plan. So just to consider, okay, when I give birth, who can help me out, anybody to prepare meals for me?
Layla B:
What kind of things do I want to eat? So to do some research on why we eat the warming foods. Some people like to eat raw food or cold foods, so it would be good to look into the benefits of eating warm foods. And we find that in all the traditional cultures, which still support new mothers in these ways, they all focus on warming foods. So there must be some wisdom behind that. So just to prepare what you're going to eat, who's going to help you, who's going to be around to support you. If you have other children, you'll probably need help with them. And sometimes we need to get paid help. I do that as well. So luckily I'm able to, I hire someone to help me now with the kids. That's why I'm able to be on this podcast. She's watching the kids right now, otherwise they'll be banging down the door.
Layla B:
So we can think about ways in advance. There's also postpartum professionals who you can hire. They can help you with cooking, taking care of the kids, breastfeeding if you're doing that, and just other things. There's also people who specialise in closing the bones in the Mexican tradition and the ceremonial bath. And lots of people now things are changing. And hopefully in the future we'll also have some ladies teaching the Moroccan postpartum traditions. So yeah, you just need to try and plan in advance, especially in the world nowadays where everyone's on their own. So it's good to plan in advance and just make a postpartum plan.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, I completely agree. Because obviously traditionally it would've just happened like with your mother coming to help out. But yes, these days, so many women are on their own. They really have to do that planning and preparing themselves. Can you tell me a little bit more about celebrating? Can you give me some examples of ways that mothers are celebrated in Morocco?
Layla B:
Yes, sure. So some of the celebrations we do, so when the mother gives birth, after a few days, sometimes the mother will be taken to the hamam. So not only having it in her house, so usually 40 day rest is staying home. But for the hamam, most people don't have a hamam in their house. So it's a public bath, which has been used for centuries. So people will not wash at home. They used to wash at the public bath in the Hamam. So it's a warm, very hot place. So this would be a celebration. It's only for women. So we have public baths for women only and for men only. So the new mother's family and friends, all the women will get together and they will take her to the Hamam. So they prepare like a ceremonial tray. It has rose water. We have a bowl with henna and eggs, there's silver.
Layla B:
These are all just traditional things. And they take her clothes. We need to make sure we take a scarf so that we wrap her hair. So although she's going to have a wash, she needs to be very warm afterwards. So scarf, socks, leggings underneath her clothes. So she needs to be kept warm completely. And then she'll be wearing a big, an outer garment, something wrapping her fully, so no winds will touch her after the hamam. And women do this in any case, so even if she's a new mother or not, when people go to the hamam, after they finish, they always wrap up very well, so they don't want to catch any calls. So they take the tray, they take sweets, they take dates, tea or milk, and they take her to the hamam. There's lots of ululating singing. And even in the hamam, it's very fun and it's a celebration.
Layla B:
And then she comes home, she gets hina on her hands and feets. And there's always of course, food prepared. We have a famous dish called Za. It's the base of the dish is made with flat breads, flat Moroccan breads. And they usually use organic chicken for the new mother, always with lots of herbs, spices. We have a herb mix called Sno. It has at least 30 different spices all blended together, all warming spices, fan Greek, lentils, onions, garlic. So it's boiled eggs, lots of nourishing things in there. Now, in Morocco, we hardly have, well, I've never met vegetarian people, very rare, but there are vegetarians. So on my retreat, we made the vegetarian version of this dish, which was really nice as well. So they'll eat, they'll celebrate the new mother. Mother can just lay in her bed and listen to everyone having fun celebrating.
Layla B:
She can join in, but she's always home relaxing or that's one of the celebrations is the hamam. And on the seventh day, usually people will have, it's like we call it the, it's also an Islamic thing, not only a cultural tradition. And that's when the baby can be named. Guests are invited. So external guests, not only close family and friends. So usually traditionally it would be men sitting on their own women alone. Now there's some families which have it mixed together. And again, of course, there's always food and just welcoming the new mother. People may bring gifts for the baby, for the mom, they bring a lot of little gold gifts and items for the baby, for mom as well. So it's a whole celebration just to celebrate that this woman gave birth and everything is okay for the mom and the baby. And yeah, this generally happens either on the seventh day or the 40 days.
Julia Jones:
I love it. It's so beautiful. And it is so just makes me feel good even just hearing about it, even not even experiencing it. So yeah, I can just see how valuable that is for mothers. Do you have anything else you want to share?
Layla B:
I was just going to say on the retreat that we had, the past one was this May, 2018. So we replicated one of these ceremonies. So I organised a party. It was women only. We found a new mother. She was about 40 days postpartum. I never met her before. I just got my auntie. I said, find someone who's just giving birth and we're going to celebrate her. Maybe she can't afford some people, A lot of people can't afford to have parties, so they'll just have a small thing at home. So she, this was her seventh child, and she brought some of her neighbours, her family, and she came. So we had the traditional group who sing. It's very common in the north region. So where I'm from, so there's a traditional group, about 10 ladies, and they just use drums and they sing. And we had food, of course, traditionally there was another dish at my grandmother's time. They used to have, it would be lamb with rice, and then lots of herbs and spices. And we had vegetarian ladies, as I mentioned. So we would do vegetarian versions of everything. So we celebrated her. People were dancing, they were lots of ululating and just celebrating her. And she got to dress, wear her kaan, and just sit. She had hidden on her hands and her baby was there. So yeah, that's the kind of thing. So
Julia Jones:
Beautiful. Can you tell me what ululating means? How do I say that? I can't
Layla B:
Do it. In some cultures, when you make that sound with your tongue, when it's moving really fast, yoing would almost be like that. But many women in Morocco, the traditional ladies, they're professionals. So in any wedding, any celebration, they're doing that.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, beautiful. Oh, I love it so much. Thank you so much for sharing. And you have another retreat coming up in 2019? Yeah.
Layla B:
Yes. In June 10th to the 17th. In 2019, yeah, it happens in Morocco. So we stay, it's for about 10 to 15 women maximum. The last one, we stayed in a villa in ela. It's a town in the north near Tange. My parents are from Chef Xen. It's a small blue wash town, very small. But we lived in Tanger. So when I lived in Meco, we lived in Tanger. And ELA is very close and it's very multicultural place. The north was colonised by the Portuguese, the Italians, the Spanish, the French Arabs, Turks. It's a whole mix. You see a mix of everything there. So it's a beautiful place. So we stay in the villa for the whole time. It's a beautiful villa. We have our own private chef pool. There's a hamam in the house. So that was important. I was lucky to find this place.
Layla B:
So we have our own hamam, and it's heated by wood, so it has to heat for a whole night. And this year, what I'm doing, I'm including the Moroccan traditional Moroccan postpartum medicine, like a training, so an actual certification training. So I'm doing the online course, but then people who come to the retreats will get to do it live, which is of course always beneficial to get to experience it and to do it. So it will be broken down in the stages, like welcoming, honouring. So we'll discuss all of those points and then nurturing for the hamam, they will get to experience it and to learn how to offer it. Closing the bones, the Moroccan way, again, you get to experience it, you get to learn how to do it. Celebration. We will have the celebration party. So the good thing, because I'm from Morocco, it's like these ladies coming are my guests, so I have to host them well.
Layla B:
And in Morocco, everyone's very hospitable, especially when you have guests, although it's a business, but it's not treated like a business. I have to be extra hospitable. And I do my best to let the ladies experience the culture as well, not just coming to a house and staying in the house. So we get to experience everything. We meet local people. You dance with the locals, we learn with them. We go out as well. So we do some sightseeing. So you can get to explore Aula with the guide. We go to Tangier in June. The weather is going to be nice and warm so we can go to the beach. So it's a whole experience. It's like a journey. And we'll go to Chef Showen as well. So it's one week, really nice journey. So we have about five ladies already, so a few more spaces left for anyone who wants to join us.
Julia Jones:
Oh, it sounds incredible. I always say this to you, Layla, but I wish Morocco and Australia we're a little bit closer together.
Layla B:
One day we'll meet.
Julia Jones:
Yes, definitely. It sounds amazing. Lovely. Do you have any last things you want to add?
Layla B:
Not really. I think that's covered everything. I would just like to thank you for allowing me onto your platform and to share what some of the things I know with everyone.
Julia Jones:
It's my absolute pleasure. And thank you for your contribution and for everyone listening at home. Layla has also contributed some of her mock and postpartum learnings in my upcoming book. So yeah, it's been an absolute pleasure to learn a little bit about that from you. Thank you.
Layla B:
Thank you. And we have the upcoming postpartum summit. It's going to start in September, and Julia is going to be talking on there as well. So we will share more details soon. I'll share them with you, and you can let everyone know
Julia Jones:
How to Yes, I will. I will. I'll add it all to the show notes. Thank you so much, Layla. So lovely to chat.
Layla B:
Thank you so much. And you take care. Thank you. Bye.
