How to build a village after having a baby
Interview with Rafferty Hallows
In this episode, we are joined by Rafferty Hollows, a postpartum doula and professional organiser who is dedicated to helping young Melbourne families find their flow. Rafferty co-hosts the Facebook group Mental Mamas United which they created to help parents with mental illnesses.
Rafferty also facilitates a workshop titled Language Fucking Matters. This is designed to support doulas to confidently use gender-inclusive language, create meaningful impact outside of social media and stand in integrity while resisting cancel culture and 'woke' ideology.
Rafferty shares different village-building strategies. They talk about being honest about what you are feeling and being specific about the kind of help you need.
Rafferty recently changed their name and is referred to in the podcast recording as “Phoebe.”
Tune in to learn more on this and other important topics!
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About Rafferty
Rafferty Hallows is a bleeding heart sapphic doula, weirdo, and Mother of gremlins. They are a writer, creator, meaning maker, community weaver & facilitator. Their greatest wish is to lead a community revolution that centres Mothers, postpartum, children and healing as vitally important to the health of society as a whole.
Reach out to Rafferty here: Instagram
We explore the following questions:
How can you build a supportive "village" or community after having a baby in today’s world?
What are some practical ways to meet and connect with other parents?
Why do people often feel like community support is impossible to find in modern times, and how can this belief be overcome?
What role do casual connections, like smiling at strangers, play in building a community and increasing happiness?
How can being open about your struggles help you connect with others and receive the right kind of support?
Why is it important to be specific about the kind of help you need from your support network?
How can combining practical tasks, like shopping or running errands, with social time help in strengthening relationships?
What are some strategies for effectively asking for help in ways that are truly beneficial to you and your family?
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Transcript
Julia Jones:
Hello and welcome to Newborn Mothers Podcast. Today we have Phoebe from Melbourne who is sort of like a doula and a member of newborn Mothers Collective. But Phoebe, do you want to introduce yourself?
Rafferty Hallows:
Hi, Julia. I am Phoebe. I am the owner operator of Phoebe Hall's family life support. I am a postpartum doula and professional organiser. I help young families, new families to find their flow.
Julia Jones:
I love it. And we were just talking about a lot of people only think of postpartum doulas as the first six weeks or few months, maybe a year at a stretch. But we were just talking about the fact that most people don't actually realise postpartum depression is actually most common four years after the birth of the first child. And Phoebe, that's really a strong passion of yours, isn't it? Coming in, not just in the early months, but those years.
Rafferty Hallows:
Absolutely. I have had postnatal depression myself after my second and third baby, and it became harder as they became older because the sleep deprivation became so much harder to overcome and their needs increased the needs of my children.
Julia Jones:
Yes. Yeah, I completely agree. And it's something that I see a lot and what we've actually got you on the podcast today to talk about is 21st Century Village building. This has become a really quite an obsessive interest of mine because all the mothers I talk to are talking about where's my village gone? What happened to my people? And a lot of people feel quite like it's a bit impossible or there's nothing they can really do about that. Really, in my experience, that's not true. And Phoebe, you've had some really amazing and interesting ways of building your village. So do you want to start with maybe where you were at before you found your village and how you were feeling?
Rafferty Hallows:
Yeah, absolutely. So I have currently three children under five. And when my first child was born, I was the first in my circle of friends to have a child. So I definitely didn't have any other friends with children who I could connect with. I had my local mothers group, but even then I was younger, so I didn't really connect with any of those families. And then I immediately fell pregnant when my son was 16 weeks old. So I had two under one for a period and developed really bad postnatal depression once he was born because I didn't have really anyone besides my husband as support. I certainly had friends who I would catch up with for coffee, but not that really heart-centered, soul nurturing support that we really actually need to thrive as new parents. And then after my second baby got a little bit older, I realised that I wanted to be a doula, a birth doula.
Rafferty Hallows:
So I did my birth doula training, and whilst I realised that I didn't actually want to work as a birth doula, it opened me up to so many parts of myself that I realised needed some work. And a huge part of that was meeting other people who were passionate about women's health and community and connection. And from there it sort of gained some momentum, but it wasn't something that just happened. I realised that we say the community or the village is dead. I don't think that's true. I think we just stopped looking for it because we're told that it's not there. And I started working to create my village.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, I loHow to build a village after having a babyve it. I couldn't agree with you more. And you have some really beautiful and unusual village building strategies that caught my attention, and that's why I've invited you here to share them. So yeah, do you want to tell us some of the things that you actually did?
Rafferty Hallows:
Absolutely. So the first thing I started doing was everywhere I went, I would smile at strangers. I especially made the effort to smile at other moms who looked like they were maybe having a hard time, or even if we were just walking past in the supermarket, I made sure that I would smile because I realised that there were other moms out there everywhere also doing mom life with their kids in tow. And I basically wanted them to be my friends and to be part of my community. And I also started offering help to everyone because I realised that by opening myself up to supporting others, it would open up them or give them others, my community, the opportunity to also help me. It had to be two way.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, I love that. I love that. And I understand that were doing this smiling at people as a way of saying to the universe, I'm open to these friendships and ready.
Rafferty Hallows:
Yes. I was like, give me a community. I will take anyone. I even had a situation where a woman, an older woman at the milk bar came up to me and said, oh, I have three grandchildren. I know it's really hard. If you ever need anything, just come and knock on my door. She lives on my street. I have her redress. I've not used it yet, but I could if I needed to.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, I love it. And right when you were saying that, I watched a TED Talk, and I'll include it in the show notes for people who want to watch, but it was a TED talk about happiness research that found that people would expect that your deeper, fewer relationships more important. For example, having a good marriage, having good relationship with your parents, your kids, maybe your immediate close circle of friends that would correlate the most highly with happiness. But actually that only came second. And what correlated the most highly with happiness was these regular incidental connections. Things like smiling at strangers or chatting to the barista actually was the most important indicator of happiness. And that's certainly been my experience. I live in a very small community. We're in the city, but it's very a tight town. I always say it's a bit like living in the country, and we all smile at each other. Everyone just, you go for a walk in the morning and you smile and wave at everyone. So there's definitely a huge part of my community and my happiness, but I think people don't necessarily do that or value that anymore.
Rafferty Hallows:
Yeah, totally true. It's funny, when I developed postnatal depression the first time, I was living in not a very lovely suburb, and I've since moved to a street that has a coffee shop and a milk bar and a park at the end of the street, which means that we get to smile and chat to our neighbours all the time. And I definitely relate to that casual encounters and casual connections as being really valuable.
Julia Jones:
It's a really top village building tip. It's not an easy one, but I think moving to a good neighbourhood is absolutely critical, isn't it?
Rafferty Hallows:
I understand that it's not possible for everyone, but if it's, it's amazing
Julia Jones:
And we choose to rent in a village rather than buy where we can afford, so Oh,
Rafferty Hallows:
Us too. Us too.
Julia Jones:
And lots of people say, you should get out of the rent market and buy. And I'm like, I'd have to go live in the burbs. I'm not doing it.
Rafferty Hallows:
I would so much rather rent and have a lifestyle that I enjoy and where I feel supported, then I own my own house and feel isolated.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, absolutely. So that's already two amazing things that you've done to build your village. You've also talked about being honest about what you were going through and your struggle. Can you talk about that more?
Rafferty Hallows:
Oh yes, totally. So I used to consider myself to be a chronic oversharer, and I used to feel self-conscious about that, but then I realised that it was actually inviting connection because other people would stand up and be like, oh yeah, me too. I'm also having a really shit day. And by being honest about where I was at and how I was feeling with my children meant that people knew that A, I needed help. B, I was open and understanding to their own experience, the other people's experiences. And it allowed me to firstly these people to stand up and say, okay, I will help you. And then for me to say, oh, hey, I can actually help you too, which meant that we were able to be friends and help each other out and be there for each other, which would definitely not have happened had I stayed quiet.
Julia Jones:
Yeah. I like another little point that you brought up there. I have a friend who talks about this a lot too, but this idea that actually you need to have some practical reason to get together, and that actually then that builds the connection. So just meeting up for social stuff, it's too easy to say, oh no, I'm too busy for coffee today. But if you actually have a sort of a commitment or you have a task to complete or some practical way of helping each other or doing something, achieving something together, then that actually really makes you come together a lot more. So you were saying you meet, for example, at the Farmer's market I think.
Rafferty Hallows:
Yeah, Preston Market, and we run errands together and it's amazing. It makes a really, what could be a really tedious task. Really fun.
Julia Jones:
Fun. And you have someone you mentioned as well before we hit record. You have one of your friends right now looking after your children?
Rafferty Hallows:
Yeah. Well, my baby, she's just rocked him to sleep so that I could do this. And yeah, she's got a child as well, and when we walk to the market, I'll then hang out with her babe while she picks up a few things.
Julia Jones:
So I love that not having this separation between work and play so that you actually have a reason to get together and it doesn't feel like you don't have time if you have to go and do your shopping separately and then find time also to go and meet your friends with a coffee. You just don't, I mean, you just run out of time. Whereas if you do the shopping together, then yes, two birds with no two
Rafferty Hallows:
Birds. Exactly, exactly.
Julia Jones:
And another thing you've mentioned as well is being very specific about the kind of help you want. Something that we hear a lot is that people say that the help doesn't help people's friends and strangers with all the best intentions come along and do things that are not at all useful and actually sometimes make things worse. So how do you make sure that the help that you're getting is actually the right kind of help?
Rafferty Hallows:
Well, I started off by stopping asking people for help who were not helping me in the way that I wanted to be helped. So I stopped asking my mom, for example, to come over and help me because it just became more stressful. And instead, I would say to my girlfriends, Hey, I really need to clean my house. Can you please come over and bring your children and chat to me whilst I do my job? So I started being really specific about what I needed, and most of the time what I needed was company to do the jobs that I needed, or, Hey, if you're going past the shops, I need you to, oh no, I need you. Can you please grab some milk for me? And start being really specific about the details instead of just, I need help. And someone saying, okay, here, I'll take your kids for a day. It's like, no, no, no. I don't need help with that. I actually want to be spending time with my children. I just need more support to enjoy them.
Julia Jones:
Yes, I love it. I love it so much. Have you got anything else to add? I think we've covered so much and you've got some really, really great specific tips in there. Something I've done as a doula on that topic is often whilst we chat about breastfeeding and in-laws and visitors and all those lovely postpartum topics, we'll just be folding the laundry together and with me as a doula and with a client. But those kinds of little things, I think they make a huge difference. And I think if you're trying to hide the fact that your life is a bit chaotic, it makes it very, very hard to ever let people in.
Rafferty Hallows:
Oh yeah. Embrace the chaos. Totally. The sitting around folding laundry and drinking coffee thing together, that is my idea of a good time. If there's anything else I would like to add, go out and meet people. You don't have to be an extrovert to go out and connect with another parent. Go to mother's groups, go to the local park and just sit down next to someone and smile. You don't know who will be the next person who's going to breeze into your life and just take some of your load off.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, I love it. And you often have to do that. A lot of times I think people are so afraid of rejection that if they do sit next to someone in the park and smile at them and that doesn't work out, then they're like, well, that doesn't work. I'm never doing that again. But you might have to do that 10 or 20 times before you find the one.
Rafferty Hallows:
Oh yeah, be the weirdo. It's like dating. It's totally like dating where you might have to go through a few awkward encounters to find your new mum, BFF.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, I love it. You have to do a bit of swiping.
Rafferty Hallows:
Wife left. No, no, no.
Julia Jones:
Awesome. That's so great. So do you want to tell us a little bit about how people can find you, Phoebe? If anyone is listening to this living in the Melbourne area and thinking, I need a bit of Phoebe in my life, where can they go?
Rafferty Hallows:
You so need a bit of Phoebe hellos in your life. Okay. So you can check me out on Instagram and Facebook. Phoebe hellos, family life support, and my website is bebe hallows.com au.
Julia Jones:
Yeah, I love it. We'll make sure all of that is in the show notes. And just a few takeaways for everyone listening. Smile at Strangers, admit the struggle. Be really specific when you're asking for help. Find a crew and don't separate your work and play. Just hang out and do everything together. And I think that pretty much covers sort of the fourth top tips I think that we have covered for today.
Rafferty Hallows:
Julia, thank you so much for having me. This was so exciting to talk about. It is so my jam connecting mothers with their crew, with their community.
Julia Jones:
Awesome. We've got a whole series on the podcast coming up as well. I've been interviewing a few people about this topic, so yes, totally agree. It's a very exciting topic.
Rafferty Hallows:
I can't wait to listen.
Julia Jones:
Alright, thanks Phoebe. We'll see you next time.
Rafferty Hallows:
Thanks, Julia. Bye bye.
